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[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 13 points 8 months ago

He is is OK with OOP. The Linux kernel is full of OPP C, but he doesn't like C++

[-] refalo@programming.dev 5 points 8 months ago

He writes Qt C++ for his diving app though.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 4 points 8 months ago

I think Linus did it in C with GTK but who took it moved it C++ and Qt. Lazy searching didn't dig up the story.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)
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[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

I write C++, but I don't like it. I don't think any one should be claiming Linus doesn't like it because he doesn't know it. If he wants to contribute to this project, it must be C++.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I don’t think any one should be claiming Linus doesn’t like it because he doesn’t know it

I didn't think anyone was making that claim? Either way I'm certainly not trying to.

If he wants to contribute to this project, it must be C++.

Yes, this is true, it's just that he was also included in the decision making process to switch to it in the first place, and I feel like his continued use of it makes me think it doesn't have to be as awful as everyone makes it out to be, or he wouldn't use it at all.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

Ask him. It's not like he has publically changed his mind. I think he just went with other developers he had handed the project to.

[-] Bye@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago

He’s not though, you should look into it

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 3 points 8 months ago

Look at the kernel code. It's full of OOP C. There absolutely are objects in the kernel.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 3 points 8 months ago

Yea but all that function pointer indirection can actually hurt performance (especially caching), some things in C++ actually can be faster just because the compiler is better at optimizing for that.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 2 points 8 months ago

There is nothing you can do in C++ or C, that can't be done in the other. It's the kind of the point of those languages.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 2 points 8 months ago

Technically you're right, but I don't think that changes what I said about optimization. There are still cases where equivalent C++ code can be faster than the C version merely due to different optimizations used.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

Meh, I'm unconvinced. If it's any kind of hot spot, in either, you can optimize the hell out of it. C++ is often more bloated is it's just a harder language pretending to be an easier one.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

That's fine, you don't have to agree. Personally I do like to use just a few features of C++ without going too crazy, like simple classes and maybe one level of inheritance, but I don't really get into templates or exceptions or other really complex/controversial stuff. I prefer having the stronger typing and better readability of this kind of C++, and I think it helps me make less mistakes, but I realize not everyone agrees, and that's ok.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

I think that's the thing, C++ is so broad. It's like many languages together. It's complex with lots of implicitness yet unsafe. There is loads of support in compilers and tools to mitigate that, but that's treatment not cure.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago

I think the same could be said about C now too, it is continuing to evolve itself with newer standards too just like C++. People choose to only use C features that they want, same goes for C++.

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 1 points 8 months ago

And that is true of any language, but C++ is without doubt one of the broadest. There are very different ways of working with it that compile very differently.

[-] refalo@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago

Is that really such a bad thing though?

[-] jabjoe@feddit.uk 0 points 8 months ago

Yes. Too much for people to learn, so they make mistakes. I've seen compilers get confused with C++. Though it was MS's....

If a language isn't tight, it should at least be safe. C++ is neither. You can do anything with it, but I don't think it's ever really a good tool for a particular job.

this post was submitted on 13 Apr 2024
730 points (95.9% liked)

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