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Sex offender banned from using AI tools in landmark UK case
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 21 Apr 2024
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Try to take your emotion from the discussion. There is finally a way for people with an illness (in this case pedophilia) to "satisfy" urges without causing harm to children. They need professional help which cannot be gained easily in the UK due to a certain government removing funds.
This isn't a give pedos stuff celebration, it's a discussion that needs to happen and if you're not mature enough to not get emotional, don't partake in the conversation.
What were those models trained on?
Not taking sides, but his argument hinged on the stable diffusion model not having CSAM in it, and using non-CSAM images in order to generate CSAM.
So he's already answered the question of what the models are trained on.
Whether those models actually are clean/safe is a different question.
Here's the problem, it doesn't matter if it was or not. It does, but that's a different issue.
My point is, how do you know it wasn't trained on csam?
You can't possibly. You can point to all the places where csam isn't and say "we haven't found any illegal images yet." But you can't say with 100% certainty that there are none.
And since you can't prove that no csam is used to train the model, any argument beyond that point is moot. If this were almost any other issue I'd say eliminating 99.99% of the risk is completely valid and safe. But we're not talking about a celebrity or a porn star. We're talking about child victims of sexual assault, and to that end we should not accept anything other than absolute certainty. And because absolute certainty cannot exist, we should not simply accept it as a society.
I'm not disagreeing, I also don't want these models producing CSAM.
But in the hypothetical that we have a clean model that still generates CSAM, what would be your argument against it?
Obviously goat sex
My understanding is that CSAM doesn't satisfy anything. Iirc research on the subject suggests that it causes most pedophiles to go out and look for the real thing.
Which scans. How many people watch normal.porn and think: "well, that's good enough" and just stop pursuing a real partner?
Could you please provide such paper? I couldn't obtain the same findings.
The difference between pedophiles and non-pedophiles is that the latter don't have to satisfy themselves with less; it's not morally wrong nor illegal to pursue relationships with an adult partner. It is, however, with children.
No one says pedophiles don't want to have relationships/sex with children after being exposed to either CSAM or AI imagery; but there is a difference between a wish and intention, and if we can help them to keep their wishes at bay, we should.
If dating adults would deeply traumatize them and would be illegal, many people would probably find a relief in porn without a real action. We just don't normally consider this perspective because in reality it's totally okay and we don't have to limit ourselves.
That's why satisfy was in quotations, it's not a black and white matter, for a lot of people this does nothing. But for alot of people this is something that is potentially life altering.
And I agree with what you're saying to an extent. But you watch porn to satisfy an urge, if I watch a certain category of porn it doesn't mean I want to go out and experience that category.
This is a complicated Matter, and someyhing a magistrate is not equipped to deal with.
Enough that our birth rates are dropping and less people are getting married.
You're going to have to source your claim there.
If you think porn is the reason for declining birth rates and higher rates of loneliness I have a bridge to sell you
It's not a matter of entitlement but of a real world harm. And generated imagery involving imaginary children does not constitude child sexual abuse.
I'd gladly give pedophiles generated imagery if that were to stop them from lurking in search of real CSAM, supporting the industry that creates a very tangible harm - actual child abuse.
And my life has nothing to do with either, so don't make it personal. I only share my opinion on what we should really do to protect children, not to protect our deeply rooted views.
https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/news/investigation-finds-ai-image-generation-models-trained-child-abuse
Using csam in training data causes harm
Answered in another thread. TL;DR those are accidentally scraped pictures, not intentional training. But we should filter datasets better.
Sure they're entitled to something.
Coping mechanisms to help them not pursue that desire, or a first class ticket on a rocket to the sun.
There is no middle ground.
There's no csam because there's no child. Critical thinking is hard I know.
Except when the data is trained on csam
https://cyber.fsi.stanford.edu/news/investigation-finds-ai-image-generation-models-trained-child-abuse
Now that's 100% reprehensible. I didn't read the link, but the only excuse I can think of is if it's used to automatically recognise csam, so a human doesn't have to look at it.
The link explains that they are in a dataset used to train a text-to-image model. Images with hashes matching known CSAM. There are tools that could have caught this which this dataset failed to use. Gigantic and repugnant failure. Makes me want to never download a dataset.
Now think of the photos that don't have any matching hashes. Social media has a ton of csam and as long as they scrape from Facebook/insta/twitter or from porn sites with no verification system they will continue to have csam in their training data.