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this post was submitted on 03 Aug 2023
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I thought the movie criticizes both extreme feminism and male chauvinism, or did I watch a different Barbie movie?
That's what the article is saying as well.
Any gendered chauvinism sucks and patriarchy causes suffering to anyone.
And if someone comes out of the movie angered by this knowledge, they can be a troublesome person to other people.
Yeah. Barbie Was not the good guy in the Barbie movie, right? Like, even in the end they admit that they will not give the Kens true equality, just enough that they basically won't revolt again. People here calling Barbie a feminist icon, what movie were you watching?
Obviously she wasn’t the good guy. She developed a nuclear bomb for heaven’s sake. To be fair I did fall asleep for a bit but I’m pretty sure I got the big plot points.
Lmfao what the actual fuck?
I didn't watch the movie, nor do I know anything about the premise, so seeing that comment and thinking about Barbie the toy is absolutely hilarious...
It was a Barbienheimer joke, I think
He's making a joke about Barbenheimer...
That's the point. They blatantly say "someday, the Ken's will have as much rights as women do in the real world"
The entire point is that treating people as second class like thst isn't good, regardless of which side its coming from and that we should all be equal. The only time I'd see men complaining about that is when they don't get it.
That line literally made my jaw drop because I had just been thinking, "Wow this is still kinda messed up. I thought their society would end up much more equal" and then BAM! that line hits. That movie was so good. I've been trying to get everyone I know to see it.
Same. I was thinking the exact same thing at that point. A massive part of the movie's message hinges on that line and I smiled so wide when I heard it because it clicked much of the rest of the film into place.
That example isn't really accurate, they say the Kens eventually will be given the same representativity as the women in the real world. That line is more of a jab against gender inequality than anything.
Yeah. I would not take it that literally. I'd say it means they're gonna do to Kens what "the patriarchy" and many people who support it do to women. Concede rights when they absolutely have to and begrudgingly accept them for the sake of avoiding bigger problems, but still believe in their own supremacy and acting one way while publicly pretending to be accepting of feminism. Then they will say, see, you have all this rights and equality now, no need for "Keninism" anymore and slowly start to backslide and undermine those rights when they feel like they can.
They're rather copying the spirit of real world patriarchy than just plainly introducing the same laws as it
Yes! This is a great way to put it and shows the mirror it's putting up to Western society
Oh that sounds more of a nuanced theme than I was expecting. Cool.
Sure but it’s still them making a conscious choice to keep oppressing a group until an unrelated reality fixes their shit. Doesn’t sound like they’re good guys at all tbh.
I hope you see the irony in that phrase.
This isn't Star Wars my dude, not everything needs to be good vs evil. Sometimes there's even room for satire.
Yeah the movie doesn't paint them as good guys though? The narrator comes in and states that they aren't at that point, and stereotypical Barbie leaves because she can't see herself as taking part in such a system anymore.
I don't think they're supposed to be "good guys".
But even though the women have the control, they do not oppress men like men do to women in the real world. Men still do everything they want, even if the women have the power because the women make the world amazing for everyone. A little different from reality.
It's not that they're homeless, it's just that where they live isn't important to the story. This is because when little girls play with Ken dolls, they don't give Ken any backstory. Kens are only there for supporting Barbie's journey.
I think that was the point, it's the perfect mirror to the real world. Everyone not okay with how the Barbies treat the Kens in the end should think for a second why that is and why anyone should accept the reverse in the real world.
It's also kind of a clever subtle call to action. "If you don't like this ending, you can change it by changing things in the real world."
"Stereotypical Barbie" (the Margot Robbie one) actually seems to get it by the end. In fact, her main character arc was going from being like the other barbies—watered down stereotypes of feminism—to actually a feminist who has a better grasp of why just equalizing out positions of power, while still good, does not address the root of patriarchy.
Okay, I'll admit I had not the slightest clue what the plot was to Barbie before opening this post but I'm getting a little curious about this movie now.
It didn't end up in a world that's ready. More like a mirror of the real world but maybe healthier?
I take slight issue with your phrasing. "Extreme feminism" isn't an issue, that's like saying extreme racial equality is an issue. Feminism isn't about female superiority, it's about gender equality. The movie does not criticize extreme feminism, it criticizes chauvinism, whether male or female.
There was a time during the 2010s when third-wave feminism was pushing things too far and trying to create divisive splits on subjects that really didn't need them, like Atheism+ and a bunch of other things with a plus sign tacked on to it. Fortunately, once the #MeToo movement picked up speed, they switched gears to more important things.
So, yes, you can have an extreme view on anything, even feminism.
I don't know about you, but I didn't find that movement extreme, just weird and lost and a tad silly.
When your definition of feminism is "gender equality", you're right, there's no such thing as an extreme. When you take the equity stance and start treating people as groups and funding/defunding one group or the other you are building up new systems of discrimination instead of breaking them down.
That is indeed what is in Barbie - if you watch it and actually think about the themes. If you’re just there for the experience then the message is (quote moviegoer behind my back discussing with friends): “goddamn, this is a step in right direction, we won’t change this patriarchal world with one film however“ :P
On a basic level the message “Ken was silly, broke Barbieworld because he wanted to emulate men, they had to get Barbie and a feminist back to fix it” - and that’s what most people will get out of Barbie.
How did he break it? He basically just flipped the genders so Kens are the ruling/working class and Barbies are just subservient eye candy. Barbie just flipped it back. It's a broken and unimaginably unfair world in either case.
When Kens ask just for a bit of equality at the end, they are shut down and given some unimportant appeasement as a joke.
The movie is calling this out on purpose. It's how women are currently treated in western society.
I don't think that's the feminism that the movie was criticizing, but rather the commodified "girl boss feminism" that holds up conventionally beautiful commercial attainment as the ultimate aspirational icon.
As opposed to the feminism of intersectionality and respect for the rights and choices of normal, everyday women.