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this post was submitted on 07 Jun 2024
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Liberty Hub
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- No defending oppressive systems or organizations
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- Discussion, not debate. This community is exclusively for genuine logical debate, any comments using whataboutism or similar will be removed.
- No genocide denial or support for genocidal entities. Anyone that supports the mass murder of civilians will be banned.
These guidelines are meant to allow open discussion and ensure leftists and post-leftists can have a voice. If you are here to learn, then welcome! Just remember that if you're not a part of the left (Liberals don't count) then you are a visitor, please do not speak over our members.
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No, no need. I just want you to be aware. There are a lot of places where people seem led to believe that yelling and framing their opinion as correct is tactically sound. Ironically, such tactics will potentially lose voters.
But I repeat, there is no "correct" answer, and therefore no judgment. I'd reserve judgment for people who actually defend opinions that objectively cause harm -- such as the bi-partisan support for genocide and border fascism.
I myself am struggling with whether/how to vote. Maybe try ... not deporting people's family if you want their votes? Or not bombing their infant children? Just a thought...
I agree, there is no globally "correct" answer. For example, a leftist and a fascist cant both achieve the outcomes they want by doing the same thing. Either an action is good for the leftist or the fascist. There are a few exceptions like eating, drinking, and sleeping, where both will be helped, but doesn't really help their political causes.
If I said to you, that I wanted to make a sandwich right now. Doing that wouldn't be inherently correct or incorrect, because it is my life and I want a sandwich. But if I then started to play videogames, you can then say that my actions are not correct per my goal of immediately making a sandwich. There are a number of things that I could do to start making a sandwich like getting utensils or checking the fridge for ingredients, that would align with my goal of making a sandwich and their for would be correct. We could argue about which steps are more correct than others, but depending on the situation, that may not be necessary.
Likewise, if someone claiming to be fascist was telling other fascists not to vote for Trump. That would not be correct behavior for a fascist. That person is acting incorrectly against their stated goals. That means either they don't have all the facts of the situation, or they are lying about being a fascist.
Now, am I saying that if you plan to vote for Trump, you are a fascist, no, I don't know what you are. All I am saying is your actions are in line with someone who is a fascist and that is pretty sus.
To summarize, if someone has a stated goal, they can be correct/incorrect relative to that stated goal.
A good first step is to figure out which way you want to vote is to figure out what you want to maximize/minimize the world. If you hypothetically want to minimize genocide you have to estimate how much genocide will happen if Trump gets elected vs Biden gets elected. Count, up those numbers and act toward the best possible outcome per your goals.
I understand all this, but since there is also an argument to be made that voting for Biden is either voting for a genocidal fascist (it literally is) and/or contributing to a system that is designed to oppress (it is), I'm not going to abide people in this community to attempt to shame others into voting for a man who is objectively causing harm. We're not going to tolerate this type of thing in this community. I'm saying this as mod and founder of this community. I see it all the time on right-wing platforms such as .world and reddit.
I'm not attempting to debate you or to engage in a philosophical discussion here. I'm telling you it will not be tolerated. Full stop.
Ohhh, I think I get it.
This place is a safe space for people to talk about ideas, but not have to back them up with rational arguments. I don't think this is a place for me.
Just make sure this place doesn't turn into a Nazi Bar https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Nazi_bar. Theses kinds of places all seem vulnerable to that.
BTW it's ok for you to make a post encouraging people to vote for Biden. We've had posts like that in the past, and I've been diligent about making sure that the poster doesn't get dunked on. Just be sensitive to the fact that some of us have been directly harmed by Biden and his policies.
This is not a debate forum. If you have something to share, you are welcome to make a post. I'm not going to have, say for example, anprims and ancoms arguing in the comments, nor people demanding users write theory on demand. I've seen how that tears communities apart.
People like Nazis and liberals aren't welcome here. We're on top of that.