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The debate gets interesting sometimes
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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I appreciate OPs honesty that Palestinians are dead either way.
Less palestinians will die under Biden. People who says "how could it be any worse?" have a severe lack of imagination and/or historical knowledge.
This claim is absolutely meaningless without evidence and some indication about how the situation resolves.
There's a very good chance the moment Biden knows he's won the election he'll call you Bibi and go "thanks for your patience. Go nuts."
I mean the right has already made it clear that they're 100% pro genocide, straight up recommending that every Palestinian is killed. The worst Biden could possibly do is be as bad as Trump.
Ok? I'm still not voting for a strike blocking genocide supporting candidate.
And that places you in the bottom left corner of the cartoon.
Ohhhh noooooooooooo
You have no one to vote for. Every single candidate supports genocide. Biden, West, Stein, Sanders. Palestinian genocide or Ukrainian genocide. Pick your 'cider
Will do. But it won't be Trump or Biden which is all that matters to you.
Well, frankly, your vote obviously doesn't matter to you. Refusing to accept the realities of our voting system as an excuse to throw your vote out the window isn't noble, it's ignorant. Whether you choose to accept it, your choice will do nothing other than help Trump.
But, yeah, go cry some more about how pointing out reality is "attacking you".
I wasn't crying about being attacked. I was pointing out it's a bit absurd to attack/judge/whatever you want to call this people like me in order to cater to people who would abandon Joe Biden in the general election if he stops supporting a genocide.
You're yelling at the wrong people.
Okay. What are you going to do about it? You want my vote and you can't have it for free. Work for it.
Yes, the "Ukrainian genocide"... You know that genocide used to be a word with a meaning, right? That we shouldn't go around calling any conflict a genocide?
No matter what your opinion on the conflict, comparing it to the situation in Palestine is the same as denying it, there is no comparison. Russia is definitely not deliberately bombing civilian targets, we have only had the collateral damage that is expected from any war. And this collateral damage is infinitely smaller than any of the wars the United States has engaged in in the last 50 years. Do you call the wars in Iraq, Indochina, Libya and Korea genocides?
Not deliberately bombing civilians...ok you know they are. It's a tried and true russian "war" tactic. They are also stealing children and taking them to families in rural Russia in order to russify them. That is a war crime and a very definition of genocide. They've stated over and over that Ukraine is not a real country and the language is not real. Erasing a culture like that is also a definition of genocide. 30,000+ children murdered in locations no where near a contested front line. Defending that is disgusting.
You felt it was not important to provide citations for your Putin apologist rant so why should you expect any?
The burden of proof lies with the accuser.
I'm adding this garbage to the gross stinking pile of shite labeled "reasons to defederate from ML".
And you are all going late. The way you guys are absolutely incapable of arguing with anyone who doesn't parrot the status quo media's cant tells me you'd be much better off back on reddit, your natural habitat, so to speak.
Do you realize that I never once said that I advocated the invasion of Ukraine? That I simply stated that the situation has NOTHING to do with Palestine? Your mind has been so corroded by ideology that you cannot tolerate anyone even slightly disagreeing with your narrative.
How about "if Israel and Hamas succeed in killing the last child in Gaza, I will kill all of mankind"? Because I WILL FUCKING DO IT.
My man I appreciate your anger towards oppressors, but first and foremost, Israel is the one killing Palestinian children, Hamas is one of the Palestinian organizations that resists the Israeli yoke. I know that the Earth is a sterile promontory, but the disorganized action of one individual, whether violent or not, is incapable of bringing about meaningful change. At best, it would bring you a false, self-indulgent, and brief sense of fulfillment, which would quickly be replaced by a much greater misery than you have ever felt for yourself and others around you. I think it would do you good to find someone in your offline life with whom you could talk about these anxieties. By doing so, you could begin to transform this destructive feeling into constructive action for a world different from this foul and pestilent congregation of vapors.
🤨
It's one thing to lie about events in the real world that a reader may plausibly be ignorant of. It's a entire other thing to lie about what you just said 2 paragraphs ago. I didn't try to argue with you because I read enough to know that doing so would be futile you tankie bootlicker.
This comment was made for the benefit of anyone unfortunate enough to read yours. Also, I block everyone who participates in Dunk Tank on principle. So this conversation won't be continuing.
My man, how is saying
the same to defend the invasion? HOW?! And again, you are the one who is cutting off any possibility of dialogue with those you disagree with. You are so sure that you are right that you do not let a shadow of doubt come near you.
Do you read?
Sorry for the late response. Yes, I actually did. I would do a point-by-point analysis of what makes this report an extremely biased piece and why it should not be considered a valid source, but I will save us both the effort (mine of writing and yours of ignoring it, since, honestly, you are not going to change your mind because of something someone on lemmy said). However, for the sake of rhetoric, I will summarize the problematic of the main subject (civilian targets), but I make it clear that by my own metric I find this insufficient.
Let's talk first about the damage to electrical installations and water distribution. The electrical installations were clearly the target, and the water distribution suffered collateral damage because they are dependent on the electrical installations. While civilians are obviously affected when you hit these types of installations, it's not hard to imagine what military interest they might have: they can and do power the enemy army's electronic equipment. Now, I can't talk about food distribution points, hospitals and shelters without touching on the source issue. This report uses four main sources: aerial images, photojournalism, Russian statements and Azov statements. While there is no problem with the first two sources, they can only show us the damage, but not the perpetrator or the intent (except in the first case, which is all too obvious). The only thing that supports the idea that the attacks on these three types of facilities were carried out by the Russians and with the intention of causing terror are the claims of Azov. There is one particular case where the Russians admitted to having committed the attack (unlike the others), but there is controversy between the Russian version and the Azov version. This is insufficient. You cannot report as true the version of any side of a war without supporting evidence. These sources are biased by definition. So, the suggestion that the one who really carried out the attacks in an attempt to vilify the Russians and cause terror was Azov, has as much value as Azov's version. It can even be said that, in the case of Azov, there are precedents for this type of action, a specific one: they did it on a smaller scale during the events of the 2014 coup, and a general one: fascists like them do this all the time, since the proto-fascist Confederates. To be clear, I am not saying that this is what happened, only that it could have happened. A conclusion on this subject requires conclusive evidence.
Trump stoked tensions needlessly by moving US embassy to Jerusalem
I guess people shouldn't have voted for a terrible candidate in the 2016 DNC primaries.
I think people shouldn't have voted for a terrible president in 2016 but what do I know
Sounds like the DNC primaries didn't produce a candidate that was sufficiently popular with all the major factions of the Democrat voter base. I wonder what the solution to that could be. Guess we'll never know since people like you refuse to have that conversation.
Technically the DNC candidate was more popular than the RNC one, but years of voter suppression perpetrated by the right wing over the past few decades prevented said candidate from attaining office
Not popular enough.
This is how you know you have brain worms. Biden has to keep the Jewish liberal vote so he's supporting Israel. He also needs congress to fund ukraine which they won't do without also funding Israel.
If anything, Biden turns his back on bibi as soon as the election is over and throws him to the wolves. Netanyahu is doing everything he can to get trump elected.
When you say this while telling me I have brain worms it's easy for me to come to the conclusion you think the desires of Jewish liberals are more important than mine.
And while that's certainly your prerogative I have zero motivation to cater to it.
Okay, I'll bite.
Why can't Biden stop supporting Israel?
He needs liberal jews and lapsed Republicans that support israel in November.
The big funding packages that he signed were part and parcel with deals to fund ukraine.
Holy shit this has me crying
Yet here you are attacking us. We can only conclude you believe their opinions are more important than ours.
I'm not attacking you. I'm saying as bad as Biden is for Palestinians, Trump is will be 1000x worse. I can't believe that's so hard for people to understand.
I won't be voting for Biden or Trump. I anxiously await your non-judgemental response.
I think that's a foolish short sighted choice. I can be judgemental all day. Doesn't mean anyone is attacking you.
Ok go be judgemental to liberal Jews and lapsed Republicans.
Future aged like milk comment? 🤔
wouldnt be a joke otherwise.
This is why the US should help move all Palestinians out of Israel. Relocate them to a place in the US. Give them a reservation land like the native Americans. They're never going to beat Israel and the best solution would be to move and start over.
Why not move Israelis?
They already have a home.
So do (did) Palestine