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Key global powers fail to sign up to Ukraine peace summit communique
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2024
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I don't need anyone to die, it's not my fault that Russia attacked Ukraine! I am from east Poland and we have literally millions of Ukrainians in our country, mostly refugees who wanted to run from war. My daughter plays on playground with Ukrainian girl, she even comes to our home. You can be cool about it but we've seen these people, we helped them. It's not that we want war, we want opposite. We want peace but also we want some justice, even little would be fine. From this point of view the proposition of Putin just cannot be accepted. Before II World War Hitler also was doing whatever he wanted, he took Czechoslovakia, than Poland and nobody wanted to do anything.
I can understand that you don't like NATO, I think if NATO seriously wanted Ukraine to win they could do more from the start. NATO provided enough equipment to Ukraine not to die but not enough for them to win. But that's not justify all aggression and horror Russia brings. Moreover, Putin started conscription before he sent his treaty to not enlarge NATO. I think he just wanted casus belli for aggression. You can disagree with someone but it's not reason to fight with him. And why Crimea was taken? Why Yanukovych had to flee to Russia? Why Donbas war started in 2014? Putin planned to take control over Ukraine many years earlier and this war is his way to take control by force but it backfired. Putin thought that West is weak and he wanted to take advantage from it. Not liking NATO cannot be reason to say that Russia had right to do what they did.
Sorry, I don't know what you referring to? Could you elaborate about this offer? Are you referring current offer or some earlier one?
I get it, Russia is master in attritional war but even they cannot maintain war forever. They are at war now and they stuck on border with Donbas. They progressing but very slowly. A lot depends on whom wins next elections in USA because Trump probably just will try to end war at all costs, no matter what.
You very clearly do since you reject peace that's on the table. In fact, you're the kind of person who wants other people to die for your ideals. The worst kind of individual. This war is happening because of the west. Period.
It could've been avoided entirely, and it could've been stopped two months in, and it could be stopped right now. The west wants to fight this war to the last Ukrainian. There's even a whole study RAND put out explaining in great detail why US in particular wanted this war https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html
This is just useless moralizing that accomplishes nothing and helps nobody. The reality of the situation is that Russia is going to win this war, and the only question is how many people will die or have their lives ruined in the process. What the west is doing is ensuring that this number is as high as possible.
Moreover, you evidently aren't aware of the fact that Russia has had compulsory military service since it was part of USSR.
The RAND study I linked above explains who wanted casus belli for aggression in black and white.
Because US backed nationalists overthrew the legitimate government in Ukraine and started doing ethnic cleansing. This is something that's pretty well documented.
This is what's called historical revisionism.
I'm referring to the current offer that was just made days ago, as well as the Istanbul agreement that the west sabotaged.
Russia doesn't need to maintain the war forever. Ukraine is literally running out of trained soldiers already, and you can't create an army by kidnapping people off the street. At some point the inflection point will be reached where there's simply not enough professional core left in the army to hold things together, and the collapse will happen rapidly at that point the same way it happened to the Germans in WW2.
Furthermore, Russian economy is now growing having become the 4th largest while western economies are going into recessions with domestic unrest becoming sharper by the day. Russia will very obviously outlast the west. Whether Trump or Biden wins the election will not change the direction of travel because the problem the west faces is the its lack of industrial capacity.
I think that you are not interested in peace in the first place but in Russia winning (correct me if I'm wrong). You have right for your own vision for reality (at least in some countries...).
I don't to want to try to change your mind but at least take into consideration that this whole conflict is not as black and white situation as you trying to show. There is no such thing as the objective truth. And everybody lies at least at some degree.
I just hope this war and war in Gaza end soon and everyone just will try to live in peace.✌️
I'm explaining to you that there is no reality where Russia does not win this war. This is has been understood by anybody with a functioning brain even before this war started. Plenty of people in the west warned against NATO expansion into Ukraine precisely for this reason. Here is what Obama had to say on the subject all the way back in 2016:
https://www.theatlantic.com/press-releases/archive/2016/03/the-obama-doctrine-the-atlantics-exclusive-report-on-presidents-hardest-foreign-policy-decisions/473151/
People who still can't understand that the west can't defeat Russia in Ukraine are simply not engaging with the real world.
There absolutely is such a thing as objective material reality, but you are correct that everybody views reality through their own subjective lens. That doesn't mean that objective reality doesn't exist however, or that people can't come to a consensus on what is actually happening in the world.
In case of the war of Ukraine, regardless of what people believe currently, they will eventually be forced to grapple with the fact that the west lost the war. And I sincerely hope that at that point at least some introspection will happen from people who've been cheer leading the war from the western side. I hope you will ask yourself what this was all for, and whether it would've been better to avoid the war.
The genocide in Gaza is incidentally another example of an atrocity directly facilitated by the US. The only reason Israel is able to conduct mass murder is thanks to material support and political cover that US provides. This makes the US a direct participant in the genocide.