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this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2024
1147 points (97.6% liked)
Enough Musk Spam
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You even got people on the left saying "I won't vote for the less bad politician unless he makes me excited to vote". When did everyone get so selfish?
Got people in the center being like "we love bad politicians because they do everything we want. Fuck you, you're voting like we tell you" and then they expect that shit to work.
Look at what happened when the party listened and gave us a candidate who could fog a mirror and who might not be as happy with genocide as centrists want.
One doesn't need to be a Leftie to be wary of voting for a guy supporting with weapons ethno-Fascists commiting mass murder, including bombing playgrounds and sniping children playing in their own homes, even if the other guy is also a Fascist.
It's not by chance that merelly replacing Biden it Kamala quickly started to bring back such voter.
The only way to think that being in the least of ways humane and not agreeing with mass murder of children is a "leftwing" thing is if you live in a country with an Overtoon Window shifted so far to the right that almost all of the political spectrum is either Fascism or pro-Oligarchy.
I too am a very left leftist and that's why this election I will check notes do exactly what the far right rightists want by voting for a third party. There will be no genocide after we elect Jill Stein, which is realistic because if she had triple the popular votes last time she could have beat libertarian Gary Johnson. There is no possible downside because there will certainly be no genocide with the far right rightists running on a platform of bigotry while saying they will have dictatorship, that Israel should nuke Gaza, that the world should let Russia run roughshod over Ukraine.
That satire of yours is entirelly anchored on a False Dilema Falacy.
I'm agreeing with you, friend. Mathematically only one of two candidates has any chance whatsoever. That's why I, a very far left leftist, will do exactly what is desired by the further right of the two parties. That will achieve leftism because of reasons.
You're right. The people who put their principles above Palestinian lives aren't left wing. They're centrists. An actual leftist puts helping others first. Voting Democrat reduces the harm that others suffer. Abstaining does nothing to help anyone. But there are some people who will choose to let brown people in the middle east die, when they could have easily prevented it, if it means they get to have clean hands and avoid some kind of misplaced guilt. They think for some reason that a vote equals a bomb, and that choosing to be a centrist means opting out of responsibility for their government's actions. They think they can live all alone in their white middle class suburban bubble. That their inaction means they can't have any of the blame laid at their feet. They pay taxes to the US government, which uses the taxes to buy bombs to kill Palestinians, and these centrists think that choosing not to take responsibility for how their tax dollars are spent makes them guiltless. And that taking on a guilty conscience by accepting responsibility, is a bigger price to pay than genocide and war.
So let me get your position straight:
The people voting egarly for the warcriminal government: not responsible for their governments actions
The people so disgusted by their governments actions such that they vote 3rd party: completely responsible for their governments actions
You're Canadian right? Go yell at people to vote in your election
Yep, you got my position straight. See, the difference is whether they're taking action to mitigate the impact of their taxes. If you do nothing, it's your fault. If you try to make it right as best you can, it's not your fault.
Like I said, these non voters think votes turn into bombs and not dollars. They think every bomb dropped on Gaza has a little ballot slip in it with Joe Biden's name on it. Us leftists know that votes for the best candidate do not make the problem worse.
But voting for the second in command for the guy that was just bypassing congress to send weapons to the occupation doesn't seem to be 'taking action' it seems to be rewarding people for participating in a slaughter (wringing your hands as you send ammunition still counts as sending ammunition)
You have just come up with a conclusion that makes you feel good personally and are vomiting word garbage to attempt to justify it to other people.
No, I can't vote in American elections because I'm not a resident or a citizen. This isn't about me feeling good, I can't take any action in the election and therefore I don't have a dog in that fight. No, my dog in the fight is my partner, who lives in America. They're trans and I don't want them dead. That's my motivation for trying to prevent a genocide. That, and a general sense of universal ethics.
You're demanding everyone vote for the people complicit in an actual genocide happening right now because of a hypothetical in the future (specifically one that actually impacts white people this time).
Your 'universal ethics' should really extend to the victims of US foreign policy, you clearly seem to view them as expendable.
Ah, see, that trick isn't going to work on me because I know what you're doing. Earlier in this conversation I said voting is the thing you do if you care about middle eastern lives. You didn't challenge me on that. You were very argumentative, but you didn't question that assertion. That's because the evidence is in my favour. You ignored me saying that to avoid drawing attention to it. Then, when it seemed forgotten, you suddenly went on the attack and called me a racist, and said being a centrist is what you do if you care about Palestinians. That's not true. If you abstain, you risk Trump bombing the West Bank. If you vote for Kamala, she forces Netanyahu to agree to a ceasefire and stop the deaths in Gaza.
You didn't defend yourself when I called you a racist because you don't have a defence. You only have an attack. You can call me a racist using your clown logic, but you can't argue against the fact that your choice kills more Palestinians. You're just trying to attack harder than I did and hope I make myself look guilty by denying it. Well, my defence is very simple, I'm trying to stop the genocide. And you're choosing to do absolutely nothing to prevent the genocide from getting worse.
I'm not going to challenge every baseless assertion you make, such as calling me a racist because I'm not voting for democrats. You have an unlimited capacity to vomit bullshit, I'll be here all day.
Trump was in office for 4 years and there was no genocide in Gaza, he's talking shit now - he's also a prodigious liar.
doubt - why would she have a change of heart after gaining more power?
Is soulism really just making up bullshit and asserting it confidently in hopes that other people are so enamored they join your cult too? lmao
Go organize against your own government ethnically cleaning indigenous people if you want to be useful, you aren't stopping shit by crying about an election you aren't participating in.
So your argument right now is that Trump is less genocidal than Kamala? You're saying abstaining is the correct decision in terms of lives lost, and specifically in terms of the tangible outcome, because Trump is less likely to fund or participate in Netanyahu's genocide than Kamala Harris?
I'm voting for PSL, and I would say that everyone else who can, should.
The democrats have just proven to all of us that they are willing to assist in a genocide if it's politically expedient. Why should I as a trans person not expect to be next on the chopping block as soon as the democrats determine it's politically inconvenient to protect my rights?
I'm not pretending that republicans are not worth contempt; frankly it's beneath that for me. However I don't view the democrats as faithful actors. The democrats are extremely willing to implement a republican agenda and warmonger. Trans rights and quality of care has been eroding under Biden/Kamala even in blue states.
Okay, so I said abstaining increases the amount of genocide, voting D decreases it. You said that's not true, Trump wouldn't bomb West Bank. I pressed you to state it explicitly, you walked that claim back. I am now going to treat the debate on D being better than R as settled.
America uses the First Past The Post voting system. FPTP suffers from the spoiler effect, which guarantees that regardless of your political affiliation or the specifics of the situation, voting third party always harms your interests. This has been mathematically and experimentally proven. Voting third party is, in terms of consequences, the same as abstaining.
Therefore, in terms of consequences, you are risking more Palestinian lives than I am.
citation needed lmao
democrats: genocide with pinkwashing
republicans: genocide with magawashing
yes, another baseless assertion. here's what you're communicating to me: "my enemy is ontologically evil therefor anything other than supporting me is increasing harm".
The most notable genocide that's happened in the last decade has been with Democrats willingly participating.
Our presidential election is completely independent of the popular vote, I am participating in it because it's what we have, however you are kidding yourself if you think my vote has any influence on which genocidal maniac ends up at the helm.
You are Canadian and babyraging that people in a country you don't live in are not taking your political input seriously.