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[Discussion] Some of the most active instances will eventually silo themselves (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 1 year ago by TendieMaster69@sh.itjust.works to c/agora@sh.itjust.works
17 comments fedilink hide all child comments

We should do our absolute best to not become a siloed instance. I predict we will start seeing certain instances be almost inaccessible which will lead to their users migrating to more open instances. It's already becoming clear to me that certain instances will lose users over time if they continue actively segregating their instance from others.

Individual bad actors on other instances is not a good enough reason to defederate. If a troll is bothing someone they can be blocked/banned on sh.itjust.works. I don't expect instance creators to ban all trolls, it's not possible.

Defederation should be reserved for severe cases when another instance shows no interest in moderating. The two instances defederated right now are justified: one condones the denial historical events and actively censors opposition, and the other was condoning heinous illegal activies regarding underage individuals. These are two clear examples of where defederation makes sense.

Defederation should only be used as a last resort.

My previous post continues this sentiment from a couple days ago here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/281126

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[-] god@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

True. Although, I've seen even the most aggressively defederated instances of mastodon be very active long-term and even grow. (poa.st may be one of the most defederated instances for example, and 1. there's still a lot of instances federated to them and 2. they still have a very active userbase.)

Quick note about this:

the other was condoning heinous illegal activies regarding underage individuals

As far as I know, they don't actually condone anything regarding "individuals" per se. Afaik Burggit's underage content is limited to hentai (japanese-style drawings) specifically. Which is not to say it is not illegal, because in Canada, it is illegal and categorized as child pornography.

[-] TendieMaster69@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

underage content is limited to hentai

In my opinion I don't see that as a limit, hentai can be even more fine tuned to give satisfaction to those who desire it. I don't want to see it on any platform that I take part in even including www.lemmynsfw.com which has made it explicitly clear that they will not accept anything that even resembles such a thing. ANYTHING related to underage content within that context should be forbidden, it benefits no one and is demonstrably harmful.

[-] MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works -3 points 1 year ago

To claim something is "demonstrably harmful" you actually have to demonstrate harm, not just cry about people liking fiction you don't.

[-] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I'd argue that Lemmygrad shouldn't be defederated, because, while Lemmygrad itself does not allow for proper discussion, other instances do and Lemmygrad users could be confronted on those instances. 'Could', because due to the defederation, Lemmygrad user comments won't show for users of this instance.

[-] Hanabie@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Lemmygrad is something else, on a level with exploding heads. I even try to avoid lemmy.ml, because the devs are tankies, too... but at least there are normal users there, too. The lemmygrad ban is absolutely fine.

[-] goat@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago

I've been working on a nonbiased worldnews. lemmy.ml having the most popular worldnews with their clear bias is worrying.

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

all news has bias and the fact that you feel you can create a non-biased world news on your own just shows how unqualified you are. To even get close you'd need multiple people with different biases.

You are not some perfect judge of neutrality. Far from.

[-] goat@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago

I plan on utilising mediabiasfactcheck and have it as a disclaimer for every newly created thread, listing the bias and factual reporting on whatever outlet is posted.

For breaking news, only reputable sources with a neutral bias and high factual reporting will be allowed.

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Thats fine but your bias will be tested with what you allow to stay up. Will you allow news from sources rated as extreme - will it depend on if its extreme left or extreme right? Will you allow reposts of stories that spark outrage in the cases it sparks outrage you like, but take down stories that spark outrage you dont like? Will you even notice if you're moderating and locking threads that spark your political adversaries outrage, but participating in threads that spark your political allies outrage?

If you're serious about trying to be neutral I suggest you look for someone somewhat ideologically opposed to you to create that balance in the space.

The nice thing about lemmy is that whatever happens, the world news instance that manages to exorcise obvious bs and propaganda the best will hopefully flourish.

[-] goat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Will you allow news from sources rated as extreme - will it depend on if its extreme left or extreme right?

Anything between left-right is fine.

During breaking news, it'll only be centre. No twitter threads or anonymous sources. Only trusted, reliable and reputable news.

Will you allow reposts of stories that spark outrage in the cases it sparks outrage you like, but take down stories that spark outrage you dont like?

I probably won't deal with reposts so long as it's within the current month. If the community becomes active, then I won't allow reposts from old headlines. I'm pretty neutral with any article so long as it's true and fair.

Will you even notice if you’re moderating and locking threads that spark your political adversaries outrage, but participating in threads that spark your political allies outrage?

I won't lock threads unless I become unavailable.

If you’re serious about trying to be neutral I suggest you look for someone somewhat ideologically opposed to you to create that balance in the space.

I'm neutral myself, so I don't really know what the opposition of that is.

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

again, you're not neutral yourself. You're just failing to identify your own biases.

Im pretty sure you were the guy right wing trolling in fact, because I viewed your history when you put yourself up for agora mod. but you seem to have a new account or have cleared some of it.

[-] goat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

uh no? I didn't make a new account or clear my history. All my comments are still in the Mod Application thread.

as for bias, are you asking me for my political opinions? I'm quite varied. c:

[-] WheeGeetheCat@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

are you under the impression that political opinions don't constitute bias? Or maybe you think political opinions don't affect how we view news? I'd disagree with both statements

[-] goat@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago

Alrighty! What's your opinion? /c/worldnews

[-] MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago

Defederating shouldnt be used at all. If you don't like what you see, don't fucking browse it, block people who post it, etc. Don't fucking make it harder for everyone else to interact just because you're upset not everyone agrees with you.

[-] Quill7513@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Then why use a platform with federation / defederation as a core feature? Why not Nostr or SSB? Why activitypub?

[-] MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works -2 points 1 year ago

I would hardly describe defederation as a core feature so much as a reasonable necessity to keep people able to host instances.

this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
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