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Linguistics (mander.xyz)
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[-] trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

ITT we fight against the evil descriptivist windmills

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yes. English is evolved by whatever's popular, ergo whatever the cool kids are doing. They're actually going to make 'fetch' happen because there's no one driving this crazy short bus; just a bunch of cheerleaders on the roof and influencers tasting the back windows.

[-] spirinolas@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

When you read texts of an ancient language than span several centuries, and the language itself stays the same, it's a strong indicator the language was no longer spoken.

Living languages always change. Only dead languages stay the same.

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[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

"refrigerate" at least has sensible etymological roots in its constituent components.

The problem with brain rot lingo is that it isn't constructed from precedent but a decay therefrom, corrupted by niche "meta" references that are little more than inside jokes that escaped their in-group, divorced of the context that brought them about.

...

Then again, though, the most popular word that humans speak all over the world is "OK", which is itself a memetic corruption of a fad, wherein people were saying "All Correct" with a deliberately exaggerated fake British accent: "Oll Korrect" (which became abbreviated).

And brain rot does have the fact that it's very funny going for it. It sounds silly which makes it fun to say and it pisses people off which makes it even funnier, because getting mad about it is a drastic overreaction. So I don't think it'll even really BECOME an actual serious problem, because the moment it hits mainstream and corporations start publishing commercials about "skibidi Ohio GYATT" it's going to implode like "it's morbin time" burned Sony.

Otherwise, constructing new words out of extant etymological particles is DELIGHTFULLY useful. In Minecraft, I built an Enfenestrator:
A window through which zombies throw themselves into a catchment chamber for culling and (when zombified villagers are isolated) curing.

[-] scratchee@feddit.uk 5 points 4 months ago

“Divorced from the context that brought them about” Ahh, so you’re complaining about all the Germanic words in English, or the Latin words? The whole point of their diatribe is that the “brain rot” words you hate are little different from most words. It’s just that for some words the “in group” is Latin speakers, and for some words it’s some group nerding out about their own topic that spread their word to the rest of us… actually, I’m still talking about Latin speakers.

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[-] ggppjj@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

Learned this a while ago, from an excellent YA writer:

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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

A Elbereth Gilthoniel,

silivren penna míriel

o mendel aglar elenath!

Na-chaered palan-díriel

o galadhremmin ennorath,

Fanuilos, le linnathon

nef aear, sí nef aearon!

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

This text is a poem in Sindarin, one of the languages created by J.R.R. Tolkien for his Middle-earth legendarium. It is a hymn to Varda (Elbereth), a revered figure among the Elves. Here's a translation and analysis:

Translation:

A Elbereth Gilthoniel, (Oh Elbereth Star-kindler,)

silivren penna míriel (white-glittering, slanting down sparkling like jewels)

o menel aglar elenath! (from heaven the glory of the star-host!)

Na-chaered palan-díriel (To-remote distance far-having gazed)

o galadhremmin ennorath, (from tree-woven Middle-earth,)

Fanuilos, le linnathon (Fanuilos [Ever-white], to thee I will chant)

nef aear, sí nef aearon! (on this side of the ocean, here on this side of the Great Ocean!)

Analysis:

Elbereth Gilthoniel: Elbereth is another name for Varda, the Queen of the Stars, one of the Valar. Gilthoniel means "Star-kindler."

silivren penna míriel: Describes the shining and glittering quality of the stars.

o menel aglar elenath: Refers to the glory of the star-host (elenath) in the heavens (menel).

Na-chaered palan-díriel: Indicates gazing into the remote distance.

o galadhremmin ennorath: Mentions Middle-earth (Ennorath) being tree-woven.

Fanuilos, le linnathon: Pledges to sing to Fanuilos (another name for Elbereth) forever.

nef aear, sí nef aearon: A vow made on this side of the ocean (referring to the Great Ocean that separates Middle-earth from the Undying Lands).

The poem reflects the deep reverence and love the Elves have for Elbereth, highlighting her connection to the stars and the distant heavens.

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[-] Professorozone@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

So why teach English at all? People could just make it all up theirself.

[-] shikitohno@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago

I would argue the main benefits are to teach people how to effectively switch registers as the context demands, and to expose them to a range of language they likely wouldn't ordinarily encounter in their daily lives. English teachers could do to lose the judgmental aspect of "This is the one true way to speak English, the way you talk amongst yourselves is wrong and you need do stop," but there's a definite value in teaching students, "This is a way to write/speak clearly and effectively that will be understood by quite nearly every other educated English speaker you might encounter."

As far as exposure to a broader range of language than one normally encounters in their life, I saw the importance of this first hand with many of my coworkers who were heritage speakers of Spanish. It's not my native language, but it was my primary work language for a good 5 years, and I wound up getting put on interpretation duties for our safety meetings over a native speaker with pretty limited formal education in Spanish. For topics to do with daily life, family, friends, etc, this guy would be able to speak much more naturally than I could. I might not say something that was exactly wrong, but perhaps I would be too formal or make odd word choices he wouldn't. The problem was, he completely lacked any technical and professional vocabulary, and had no concept of what words/phrases were unique to his own country and what alternatives might be more widely understood.

We would have safety meetings once a night, and they would have topics like, "When a forklift has its forks in the air, don't walk beneath it, as hydraulic failure could lead to injury or death.". He translated that one night as "Cuando la vaina del pasillo tiene esa vaina de en frente en el aire, no pasen por debajo de la vaina. Es peligroso." Basically "When the thing in the hall has the thing in front in the air, don't walk under the thing. It's dangerous." Best case, he might say "El forlift," but he would never land on "el montacargas," or even think to look it up. Some of his wilder attempts at interpretation didn't work for anyone, and the ones where he just used a Spanglish version of technical terms only worked for other coworkers who already knew at least a bit of English, and probably didn't really need the translation that much to begin with. Unfortunately, we had a fair number of employees who were monolingual Spanish speakers that he found himself just completely unable to communicate with effectively.

Granted, not everyone takes full advantage of it, but English classes do (or at least should) expose you to a broad range of the language, as it's used in various contexts and forms, while also furnishing students with the ability to expand upon that and adapt to new contexts on their own in the future. Failure to do so leaves students with stunted linguistic and communicative abilities.

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[-] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago

No, snuffles005, that doesn't mean "yzax" is a valid word for Scrabble.

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[-] nikaaa@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

One thing I learned: fuck dictionaries. Be creative. Invent words if you need them. As long as it's understandable, that's all fine.

[-] stephen01king@lemmy.zip 9 points 4 months ago

While, at the same time, don't be mad at people that don't understand the word you used because they lack the context. Be educational, don't gatekeep.

[-] HowManyNimons@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Nucular. Checkmate, atheists.

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[-] fsr1967@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

My ex-wife was a word snob. I wish I'd seen this when I was married to her.

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this post was submitted on 19 Jul 2024
1306 points (95.8% liked)

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