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submitted 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago) by renzev@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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[-] bloodfart@lemmy.ml 54 points 12 hours ago
[-] Uberflussig@sh.itjust.works 8 points 11 hours ago

Fuck me, I'm crylaughing at this

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 22 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Bullshit, there's always reasons listed. Some more, some less opiniated, but there's always lists.

For me personally:

  • no portability
  • not-invented-here syndrome
    • manages stuff it shouldn't, like DNS
    • makes some configurations unneccessarily complicated
  • more CVE than all other init together
    • service manager that runs with PID 0
[-] BaumGeist@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 hours ago

To the feature creep: that's kind of the point. Why have a million little configs, when I could have one big one? Don't answer that, it's rhetorical. I get that there are use cases, but the average user doesn't like having to tweak every component of the OS separately before getting to doom-scrolling.

And that feature creep and large-scale adoption inevitably has led to a wider attack surface with more targets, so ofc there will be more CVEs, which—by the way—is a terrible metric of relative security.

You know what has 0 CVEs? DVWA.

You know what has more CVEs and a higher level of privilege than systemd? The linux kernel.

And don'tme get started on how bughunters can abuse CVEs for a quick buck. Seriously: these people's job is seeing how they can abuse systems to get unintended outcomes that benefit them, why would we expect CVEs to be special?

TL;DR: That point is akin to Trump's argument that COVID testing was bad because it led to more active cases (implied: being discovered).

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 hours ago

Sure, some like overengineering.

[-] TheKingBee@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

is it overengineering or just a push back against "make each program do one thing well," and saying yeah but I have n things to do and I only need them done, well or not I just need them done and don't want to dig through 20 files to do it...

[-] auzy@lemmy.world 4 points 10 hours ago

Try writing a init script on systemD.

It's amazingly simple

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 3 points 9 hours ago

But only that.

Btw, dinit is simpler. :)p

[-] wormer@lemmy.ml 37 points 15 hours ago

I feel like anyone who genuinely has a strong opinion on this and isn't actively developing something related has too much time on their hands ricing their desktop and needs to get a job

[-] loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works 17 points 15 hours ago

As someone who's not a developer at all and has been making a comic about systemd for a rather small audience, it's worse than you think: We actually have stuff to do and procrastinate on them while spending time and thoughts in this, reading old blog posts and forum debates as if deciphering Sumerian epic poems. Many pages were made while I was supposed to be preparing for exams, which I barely passed. Others when I should've been cleaning up for moving. I think part of the reason why I haven't made any in a while is that with a faithful audience being born and waiting for the next chapter, it's started feeling like something I had to do, and therefore, the type of stuff I procrastinate on.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 hours ago

Congrats on passing the exams!

[-] django@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 12 hours ago

Congratulations on passing your exams! Hang in there. 🙂

[-] loaExMachina@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 hours ago

Thank you! This year's even harder, but I'm hanging on!

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 12 points 15 hours ago

My full-time job literally involves dealing with systemd's crap. There is a raspberry pi that controls all of our signage. Every time it is powered on, systemd gets stuck because it's trying to mount two separate partitions to the same mount point, whereupon I have to take a keyboard and a ladder, climb up the ceiling, plug in the keyboard, and press Enter to get it to boot. I've tried fixing it, but all I did was break it more.

[-] Asetru@feddit.org 44 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

systemd gets stuck because it's trying to mount two separate partitions to the same mount point

Uh... Sounds like it's not really systemd's fault, your setup is just terrible.

I've tried fixing it, but all I did was break it more.

If you're unable to fix it, maybe get somebody else? Like, this doesn't sound like it's an unfixable issue...

[-] jj4211@lemmy.world 17 points 13 hours ago

Uh… Sounds like it’s not really system’s fault, your setup is just terrible.

I don't know his specific issue, but the general behavior of systemd going completely nuts when something is a bit 'off' in some fashion that is supremely confusing. Sure, there's a 'mistake', but good luck figuring out what that mistake is. It's just systemd code tends to be awfully picky in obscure ways.

Then when someone comes along with a change to tolerate or at least provide a more informative error when some "mistake" has been made is frequently met with "no, there's no sane world where a user should be in that position, so we aren't going to help them out of that" or "that application does not comply with standard X", where X is some standard the application developer would have no reason to know exists, and is just something the systemd guys latched onto.

See the magical privilege escalation where a user beginning with a number got auto-privileges, and Pottering fought fixing it because "usernames should never begin with a number anyway".

[-] laurelraven@lemmy.zip 3 points 3 hours ago

I love that mentality to development

If it has a buffer overflow exploit that caused it to execute arbitrary code is his response that people shouldn't be sending that much data into that port anyway so we're not going to fix it?

(I feel like this shouldn't require a /s but I'm throwing it in anyway)

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 39 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)
[     *] (3 of 3) A stop job is running for User Manager for UID 1000... (1m12s / 3m)
[-] fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de 23 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)
# nano /etc/systemd/{system,user}.conf
----
DefaultTimeoutStopSec=10s

You're welcome.

[-] mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 hours ago

What the fuck it even means for a stop job to run?

[-] dezmd@lemmy.world 8 points 12 hours ago

OH LOOK A CONF FILE TO EDIT.

Full circle, bitches.

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[-] AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 15 points 15 hours ago

Type reboot into an SSH session and play everyone's favorite game show...

WILL IT ACTUALLY DO IIIIIIIIIIIIIIT

[-] savvywolf@pawb.social 109 points 20 hours ago

"I hate systemd, it's bloated and overengineered" people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.

[-] azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 hours ago

Wait until you learn about debhelper.

If you use a debian-based system, unless you have actively looked at the DH source, the one thing that built virtually every package on your system, you do not get to say anything about "bloat" or "KISS".

DH is a monstrous pile of perl scripts, only partially documented, with a core design that revolves around a spaghetti of complex defaults, unique syntax, and enough surprising side effects and crazy heuristics to spook even the most grizzled greybeards. The number of times I've had to look at the DH perl source to understand a (badly/un)documented behavior while packaging something is not insignificant.

But when we replaced a bazillion bash scripts with a (admittedly opinionated but also stable and well documented) daemon suddenly the greybeards acted like Debian was going to collapse under the weight of its own complexity.

[-] wax@feddit.nu 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Oh yes, fuck dh with a rusty pole. I've had to paclage some stuff at work, and it's a nightmare. I love having to relearn everything on new compat levels. But the main problem is the lack of documentation and simple guidelines

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 16 points 16 hours ago

If systemd was only managing services there would be less opposition. People opposed don't want a single thing doing services and boot and user login and network management and...

[-] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 14 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Are they also opposed to coreutils being a single project with dozens of executables doing different things?

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 12 points 15 hours ago

IDK, ask them. There are some in this thread. I'm addressing the strawman argument that people against it are luddites set in their ways over their beloved cron jobs.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 23 points 17 hours ago

“I hate systemd, it’s bloated and overengineered”

And built poorly by people who don't work well with others and then payola'ed onto the world.

people stay, perched precariously on their huge tower of shell scripts and cron jobs.

Fucking UNIX is shell scripts and cron jobs, skippy. Add xinetd and you're done.

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[-] msage@programming.dev 26 points 17 hours ago

I will take OpenRC to my grave

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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
657 points (95.9% liked)

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