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How population has changed between 1990 and 2022 (i.imgur.com)

submitted 1 year ago by genfood@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de

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[-] Dmian@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Let's make this clear: Spanish population only grows because of immigration. We have one of the lowest birth rates in the world (see https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/birth-rate-by-country), but allowing immigration has somewhat contained our population decline. Without immigration, our pension and health systems would be unsustainable, unable to cater an aging population. So we have immigration to thank for what you see in that image. Countries with low birth rates and low immigration (like Japan) are actually doomed.

[-] Eldaroth@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I guess this is true for a lot of countries on this map where population numbers have increased in the higher two digits. At least it's also true for Switzerland and yet one of the most popular political parties is actively promoting laws to limit further immigration. Not that this is surprising in the current political environment in Europe where it seems we are seeing a right shift in a lot of governments nowadays.

[-] Dmian@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yes, I imagine that is the case for other countries, but I just talked about Spain because that's where I live, and I know the reality here. Immigration is a completely positive event. We should be really thankful for those immigration waves we had in the past.

[-] rikudou 43 points 1 year ago

Now do one without immigration. Is there even an EU country that has bigger birth rates than it did in 1990?

[-] fr0g@feddit.de 52 points 1 year ago

Which is just another reason why the aversion to immigration on display by such large parts of EU society at the moment is just so freaking dumb and counterproductive.

[-] betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com 14 points 1 year ago

I agree with you, but you can't just change the demographic makeup of any territory without some resistance from the native population. Push back is to be expected. You can tell Europeans "your people will go extinct without this", the rational response would be to accept it, but people aren't always rational.

[-] angrystego@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Well, population decline doesn't automatically mean extinction. Eternal growth is not possible. The system should not rely on perpetual population growth.

[-] betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com 1 points 1 year ago

Population decline due to low birth rates has never happened. Population declines have always been due to disease or war or something like that, taking the adults and leaving a young population behind. It's not about a system, an aging population with low birth rates probably amounts to population collapse, but we are in uncharted territory and can't know for sure how it plays out.

[-] 1847953620@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

More like almost never

[-] Sodis@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

Well, let's wait until the Boomers go into retirement and the economy really crashes, due to the lack of manpower. Maybe some people will change their view on immigration then.

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nah, we can just lower their pensions when they aren't in power anymore.

What are they going to do, destroy the planet for profit even more?

[-] starchylemming@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

what happened in turkey? how did they increase so heavily? didn't large amounts of their population move to central europe in that same timeframe?

[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 47 points 1 year ago

Larger amounts of Syria fled to Turkey.

[-] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 year ago

Since 2006 it is about migration to and from Germany is about equal. A lot of Turks moved back to Turkey as the economy grew and well with a German pension Turkey is a great place to live, especially when you speak the langauge and have family there.

Other then that the Turkey has natural population growth and Syrians and other migrants moving to Turkey.

[-] Aiyub@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago

Turkey has brain drain. The educated people are moving away. Those are usually the ones with smaller families.

[-] Eheran@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Ukraine pre or post invasion? So what point of 2022?

[-] DJDarren@thelemmy.club 13 points 1 year ago

Ireland is interesting here. I don’t believe they have as many people immigrating to them as other countries, which indicates this is mostly people not leaving as was widespread until the 00’s.

[-] hitmyspot@aussie.zone 8 points 1 year ago

It’s a combination of immigration and returning emigrants.

[-] HappyMeatbag@beehaw.org 13 points 1 year ago

Woah. Luxembourg is BLOWIN’ UP!

[-] Honytawk@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 year ago

Yeah, there are now a total of 20 people living there except the 6 from before.

[-] Murais@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

It wanted to stop Belgium from having all the fun.

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

You mean people don't want to live in wartorn and just plain shitty countries and flee to more progressive and human right focused countries. Weird. And now those shitty countries just get shittier because those that could leave did and they are usually the healthy/smart people.

[-] Alterforlett@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Norway had a birth number of 1.41 in 2022. We are absolutely dependent on immigration to uphold our society.

We have our flaws as well, but we're not a shitty country

[-] hitwright@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I love how russia has just a penis on it. Rofl

[-] turnleftist@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

They're about to lose so hard you guys, Slava Ukraini 🙋 fuck putler amirite

[-] hitwright@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Heroiam slava 🙋‍♂️

[-] turnleftist@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

How's it going now? Fight til the last ukrainian yet? 🤣

[-] hitwright@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Are you alright mate? The post is more than week old :D

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this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2023

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