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submitted 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) by Joker@sh.itjust.works to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

New research reveals serious privacy flaws in the data practices of new internet connected cars in Australia. It’s yet another reason why we need urgent reform of privacy laws.

Modern cars are increasingly equipped with internet-enabled features. Your “connected car” might automatically detect an accident and call emergency services, or send a notification if a child is left in the back seat.

But connected cars are also sophisticated surveillance devices. The data they collect can create a highly revealing picture of each driver. If this data is misused, it can result in privacy and security threats.

A report published today analysed the privacy terms from 15 of the most popular new car brands that sell connected cars in Australia.

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[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 90 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

It's also why repair costs an arm and a leg.

It used to be a bumper was just filled with foam, so getting in a fender bender was a pretty cheap fix.

Now a bumper has upwards of $5000 in technology and sensors sitting in it, and a fender bender can often make the car considered "totaled" because the cost to repair is now more than the total resale value of the car.

Get a bike, ride a bus, fuck surveillance capitalism.

[-] radau@lemmy.dbzer0.com 39 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Best part is it's $5000 because they get to name their price. These sensors, headlights, etc, cost nowhere near that, but where else are you gonna go get em?

So in a few years when your new car has depreciated to somewhere around 10k and you get a massive repair bill? Well most people are scrapping it and getting another car, convenient for them....

[-] Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 4 weeks ago

Opting out still seems like they're pinkie promising they won't spy on you. There's no guarantee they're not using all those sensors on your car to keep tabs on you. The only thing they can't do is sell your data without getting caught. Are there any guides to install a faraday cage on the telemetry antenna? I miss having dumb cheap vehicles.

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I have never seen an opt-out work as it should. Operating systems just re-enable everything through system updates. Apps do it through app updates. A lot of updates seem like they're for nothing other than getting you to agree to a new more intrusive ToS. For websites, spam lists, and that sort of shit, they just create a new mailer program and opt you into that. Sure, they're not sending you the one you opted out of, but there are 500 more on the back burner. Some of the worst offenders will have dozens or even hundreds of different lists and force you to opt out of each one individually. Then of course there are the spammers who just don't even capture the opt out. Or put the opt out behind a login that you don't even have. Or serve the opt out page through an ad-click network which is blocked by your filter list, firewall, ad blocker, or DNS. There are a hundred ways they circumvent the laws and legislators are doing nothing to stop them.

[-] Preflight_Tomato@lemm.ee 5 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I think the best course of action is to find an cut the antenna or it's trace on the board (and verify). Sounds a lot easier than it is though.

edit: or also pull the modem fuse, if it has one

[-] nickhammes@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago

From a cursory examination, it looks like there are at least some models where you can disconnect the antenna, for which you may get a warning you can just ignore. Seems a lot easier than a faraday cage. But a lot worse than a car not outfitted with that kind of tech.

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The surveillance is mostly done on the inside of the car, not the outside. Parking sensors don't really provide useful data for them to harvest, but that is why they cost so much to replace. If you don't care about parking sensors you can just replace your bumper without them, the car doesn't really care after you tell it "you didn't ship with parking sensors".

[-] pineapple@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago
[-] bobbytables@discuss.tchncs.de 52 points 4 weeks ago

Mozilla Foundation did a deep dive into this. And the results where abysmal. The only brands not completely horrifying where Renault/Dacia because they are European and only serve the European market so they have to follow GDPR.

[-] HereIAm@lemmy.world 18 points 4 weeks ago

Any company that serves European customers have to follow GDPR. Any company that breaks it can be fined by the EU. Hence why a bunch of American websites rather just block European browsers instead of changing their cookie/data retention policies.

[-] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 6 points 3 weeks ago

I am less interested in ranking them based on what they do (because we can assume they just vacuum up everything anyway), and more in a ranking based on how easy the surveillance is to remove. Apparently for some cars the telematics module can be easily unplugged at least, losing you some non-critical functionality, but on others it may be integrated tighter.

[-] monovergent@lemmy.ml 39 points 4 weeks ago

A few years ago, when I cared little about my privacy, I would fancy buying a new car. Thanks to privacy concerns, I became proud to have my old car, which also happens to be highly repairable.

[-] Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 13 points 4 weeks ago

Yep, I have my 2004 landcruiser. I will never get rid of this car

[-] Charger8232@lemmy.ml 28 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

I once had a conversation with AI to see what the fastest form of local transportation is, that didn't absolutely require paying any kind of insurance, like cars do. I did not expect the response at all: the AI told me horseback riding. The thing is, it's completely right, but it's something no human would ever have given as a response. Anyways, if anyone has a horse you don't want...

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 22 points 4 weeks ago

An eBike would be faster, and way easier to maintain and store. They don't require insurance.

[-] Charger8232@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 weeks ago

Horses can run between 25-30 MPH, a class 3 e-bike caps out at 28 MPH. So, they're about the same.

[-] Preflight_Tomato@lemm.ee 6 points 4 weeks ago

Also, horse is bigger/more visible to cars, and maybe could be in the street. So you may not have to wait on traffic crossings as much depending on the area.

I still choose e-bike because poo, but what a looney idea, I love it.

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[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 13 points 4 weeks ago

The AI was doing that meme

“Humans have horses. Don’t ride them. Are they stupid?”

[-] clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 weeks ago

Horse Outside by the Rubber Bandits

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[-] rolling_resistance@lemmy.world 25 points 4 weeks ago
[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 18 points 4 weeks ago
[-] rolling_resistance@lemmy.world 19 points 4 weeks ago

Seems like you have bigger issues than corporate surveillance.

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[-] MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca 13 points 4 weeks ago

Not with that attitude!

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 25 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

That's why I'll take bus, train, rideshare, carshare, plane with all the cameras and tracking over buying a new personal vehicle. Modern cars can build a personal digital profile of you, they know where you travel, they track your plate, and we found out they track your driving behaviour to screw with your insurance rates.

[-] TheImpressiveX@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 weeks ago

Also consider getting an ebike, if possible.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

In fact, I have one! And for its size (20-inch wheels and foldable) it can fit a lot!

E-bike

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[-] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 24 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

This is why when I get my driver's license, I'll buy a car from 2012 that has no Internet. Probably old Skoda Octavia.

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[-] BigDaddySlim@lemmy.world 21 points 4 weeks ago

First thing I did when buying my '21 Toyota was remove the fuse giving power to the cellular modem. Is it still recording my data? Of course, but that's only a worry if I go to their dealership for service. If I ever need to actually do that (recalls for example) I'll remove the DCM module from the vehicle before bringing it in. There's a very good local shop near me that I'll bring it to for normal maintenance before letting Toyota plug in to the car and download my data.

Some vehicles this may not be possible, so if this concerns you, check forums about your vehicle if it is a moving spy machine before trying this because you might end up causing the vehicle to be put in limp mode because of some BS design choices.

[-] Dust0741@lemmy.world 6 points 4 weeks ago

Which fuse? And links to a guide?

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[-] Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml 20 points 4 weeks ago

Even if your vehicle isn't watching you, your phone is

[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 weeks ago

The car has its own power generation though so it can do a lot more without risk of killing the battery. They can record and stream the whole time you use it.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 8 points 4 weeks ago

Not my phone. I dont run spyware on it

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[-] heavyboots@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 weeks ago

Toyota at least has an opt-out website. (Or at least in the US they do). You lose the ability to do stuff like remote start from your phone though. And emergency roadside service, blah blah blah. I turned off all the mapping saved route stuff immediately that let you see your previous trip average miles/KW and then turned off everything once they wanted me to pay a monthly fee for remote start and such.

[-] krolden@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 weeks ago

Theres still an LTE modem in your car sending data somewhere

[-] SoylentBlake@lemm.ee 5 points 4 weeks ago

So if I were to take one of them cars and drive out to the middle of nowhere in the desert where there's no cell service, what's it gonna do? Shut off once it's roaming? Not start back up and strand me in 115° heat? I just want to be prepared for my lawsuit that's all

[-] mac@lemm.ee 17 points 4 weeks ago

It'll just cache telemetry locally then send it in when you reconnect to the network

[-] Anticorp@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago

I seriously doubt they're not capturing the information just because you told them not to. They're just going to treat it differently. But have no delusions that they're respecting your wishes as you think they should.

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[-] Phoenicianpirate@lemm.ee 13 points 4 weeks ago

I played Cyberpunk 2077 many times and in the game they have vehicle quickhacks that allow you to stop a car temporarily (emergency break), force the car to full throttle (Floor it), taking control of the car... or making the car blow up with self-destruct.

Now it's just a game and this can be excused, but at the same time I wondered how the hell could you make a car blow up? Then I realize Tesla cars can burn quite viciously, and the mechanisms of opening the door CAN be jammed. The other shit is probably going to be quite possible soon if not already. Meaning we could see high-tech murders happen by people who find weaknesses in car cybersecurity and exploit it to kill their target, and if they cannot trace where the hacker was or how it would be an unsolvable murder...

But that's only if a random ass murderer does it. It wouldn't surprise me if corporations wanted to off someone they didn't like for any reason and that person was driving one of their cars then... yeah, it doesn't take much imagination there, does it?

Maybe it's because I am an elder millenial who never owned a car, but only rented cars when I need them, The most I ever used is google maps (now Osmand... which is the superior Open source option!) to find my way. But I never felt the need for anything else other than blindspot detectors (which don't need to be connected to anything!) to help in lane changing since it makes that task easier. I listen to all my music and stuff on my phone (which is another tracking device I fucking hate) so I don't even bother with the radio.

In short. I would like my automobile to be like what automobiles were... a hunk of metal that is used to travel from point A to point B. This is coming from someone who LOVES technology and I recently took the time to buy a 6000$ desktop because I fucking wanted the most high end machine I could get and I love it. But even I have my limits.

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[-] Melatonin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 3 weeks ago

Sell me a dumb car.

[-] pineapple@lemmy.ml 10 points 4 weeks ago

Is there any open source/privacy focused connected car software?

[-] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago

The problem isn’t e.g. CarPlay, it’s the car itself, which is usually entirely custom.

For example with Infiniti they have their own Android based OS and the only way to get a new head unit in the car is to have a full emulator. Otherwise you lose access to anything that the head unit controls.

I don’t know if open source custom car roms will be a thing until we have an LLM that’s smart enough to automate porting the rom to different models of car.

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[-] n7gifmdn@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 weeks ago

yep. I just with some car company would choose not to do this and advertise the fuck out of it. (looking at you Chrysler you have nothing to lose)

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[-] nixfreak@sopuli.xyz 9 points 4 weeks ago

No shit , this just in said anyone in security.

[-] 0x0@programming.dev 4 points 4 weeks ago

I'm shocked, i tell you, shocked!

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this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
512 points (99.2% liked)

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