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[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

Hope I’m not thinking too abstractly here:

If you’re an individual with only their bare hands in a society that doesn’t need manual labor, not even necessarily a capitalist society, then that society would have to give you something (education) in order for you to give back to society. Once they do, you’d owe them. Maybe not dollars, maybe a moral obligation, but they’d only give you something expecting a return

“The rich get richer” through things like stock buybacks are their own issue. I just don’t get the implication this is a genuine multi-layer representation of an issue.

[-] Wogi@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

A good, free education is to the benefit of society.

You do not incur a debt for the 12 years of school you're already mandated to receive, because that education makes society better. You become a better, more productive adult as a result of it.

But now we find that that education is not enough. Most people are not graduating high school with the necessary skills and knowledge to become that fully functioning adult. So, it is too society's benefit to extend that education.

This should not be transactional. We the people provide the education, and we the people benefit.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

Otoh, there's always work digging ditches or nursing. Most people would prefer nursing in that scenario. Extend this metaphor to whatever job we're short of and make that education free until we're not short of it anymore.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I mean that's the problem, whichever country you want to do this in, the world has started automating its hole-digging. Not sure why you're using nursing as an example, since that's a very specialized field that needs a lot of student loans to get into. Traveling nurses are in high demand.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

That's exactly why I bring up nursing. It's expensive to learn and society needs a lot more nurses.

[-] marcos@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago

Once they do, you’d owe them. Maybe not dollars, maybe a moral obligation, but they’d only give you something expecting a return

Most advanced countries will give you all of your formal education for free or with a heavily subsidized cost.

It usually don't create an obligation, or some kind of moral one. Managers have this joke (that for some reason they never think about) where they are deciding of they'll train their employees, and one asks "what if we train them and they leave?", so the other respond "what if we don't train them and they don't?". State payed education is just that, but at a society level, and for everything the society expects from people instead of just work.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

expecting a return

It's called taxes. In many normal places, some people qualify (based on secondary education grades or other things like military service) to receive free higher education (basically sponsored by the government) that is paid off later over the years by taxes or contributions to the GDP.

[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

Fuck that, I never asked to be born. Send the bill to my parents.

[-] solstice@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I guess I take issue with the fact that you can't realistically opt out. Maybe if you are a wilderness survivalist type then maybe you can go do a Thoreau or Davy Crocket or whatever and just build a log cabin in the woods somewhere. But that's very rare these days, and society is moving forward so fast that tens of millions of people are being left behind because they lack the technical skills to thrive in a modern economy, and the survival skills to thrive in an old school agrarian economy. When that many people are left behind, it becomes a major social problem that'll come home to roost eventually.

[-] Katana314@lemmy.world -1 points 2 days ago

There are sci-fi depictions of perfect utopias where automation has maintained so much of modern life that people need neither learn nor contribute. But, not only would I be somewhat opposed to going in such a lethargic direction, we're also a very long way from that sort of utopia, and we'd need more educated people to handle it.

I certainly don't claim that the current pattern of "No one can afford medical school, no one can become a doctor, and thus no one can AFFORD a doctor" is a good one. But the work needed to invest in giving the world more doctors is still an investment, be it monetary or otherwise. Medical schools do not purely operate out of the goodness of their heart; they expect to work within a system (and be given their own means for survival).

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

Ah no, educated citizens is to the advantage of the society. Not in working power but in not falling back to a totalist system with low living standards.

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[-] Free_Opinions@feddit.uk 4 points 2 days ago
[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

All of us serve the same masters

[-] improvise3020@ani.social 4 points 2 days ago

Life of Haiti

[-] pancakes@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago

The circle of life?

That sounds like of like the circular water cycle, which means... ... the economy is therefore a liquid and trickle-down economics does in fact work.

[-] cheeseandrice@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago

Sounds like every record deal when you put it that way.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2025
1423 points (98.4% liked)

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