Yeah that's a huge red flag. Ethical non-monogamy can only work if everyone is open and honest with each other about things, and it definitely sounds like K and J are not on the same page on this
I totally agree. Communication is key is making them work. I have been shut out of any communication regarding the status of their relationship. I know nothing. I Should I attempt to establish some communication? Or should I just fuck off?
Honestly it sounds like they need to work their stuff out before you should try getting involved at all, you're just asking for trouble it sounds like
Yeah. Probably.
Worried about what? It seems clear she and J are having some issues and it's probably better to not get involved. Behind closed doors they clearly have a problem they're working through. What you need now are boundaries for yourself and to think about and talk about your own personal expectations with K.
I'm not sure exactly. Worried about Kay's happiness and maybe safety. It just has left a bad gut feeling that I cannot shake.
Communication is key. Text her like, "Hey was thinking about you, everything ok with you and Jon?" And let her fill in the open-ended question with whatever she's comfortable telling you about.
I was going to send a very specific and throughout message. I have it typed out and almost ready to send. But your suggestion may be better. We have been texting eachother Good morning and good night texts for months now. maybe I should drop it in one of them.
In my opinion, as a default, ENM is a harder version of relationships. Some individuals may say they're fine with it so that they get to be with the person they like, but when the rubber hits the road, they are not - cue jealousy.
Without further info, what I think I'm seeing here is J now has to decide if he's okay with real ENM. And K has to decide if she's truly ENM, likes one of you more, or is monogamous and telling herself she's not (based on her decreased availability to OP). I agree with another comment that communication is absolutely key here, esp. if she wants to continue seeing both of you.
My guess is J will tap out or push K to cut OP out. If it comes to that, she may pick J due to longer commitment. But as my GF says - if you cheat, go with the new blood - if you were happy you wouldn't have needed another.
Note/food for thought: my personal stance on ENM is that it's less of a long-term solution than it is the dating version of FWB. No hate, I just don't think on average it pans out better than FWB without extremely (read: beyond the average person's) good communication and empathy. /endramble
Thanks for the thought out reply. I wish I could give you more information. Maybe this is relevant, Jon didn't get Kay any thing for her birthday. I did. I care about Kay and just want her to be safe and happy. I don't want her to do anything she doesn't want to do. And I want her to be able to do what she wants. Jon is actively seeking his own side piece and has possibly found one. I don't see him on Grindr anymore. Where as before he would be on it constantly while we would all chill. I'm of the stance that people should just love and fuck who they want, love isn't a limited resource. All the rules and labels are BS. I miss my friends. Jealously sucks.
How long have they been ethically non-monogamous? Have they done the work to be ready to do it? I go to polyamory meetups and this isn't unusual for couples who have recently changed the type of relationship they had and didn't do much, if any, of the prep work. There is a lifetime of monogamy centric, or exclusive, experiences and media consumption that can be hard to let go of for some people.
Whether it's jealousy or insecurity or something totally unrelated to your and Kay's relationship, it'll be up to you to communicate your own needs, concerns, or anything else and decide whether or not you want to continue, change, or end the relationship based on those discussions.
I'm crossing my fingers for you that he's not an "ENM for me but not for thee" kind of person. If he is, then Kay will also have to decide if the relationship with Jon is something she wants. That, too, isn't unusual in new ENM couples.
I cannot answer those questions. I can speculate. I feel they are new to ENM relationships and may have entered into it as a way to find new partners. Not much prep work or ground rules. Idk. It is kinda looking like Jon is that kind of person. I am so thankful for your advice! I will have to prepare a message to Kay. Any advice on how to communicate my concerns?
I have this: Hey Kay! So, I have a few questions that have been in my head for a bit. I have decided to ask you. When we last chilled, why was Jon so upset? Your demeanor changed as well when they got home. And the next time we were going to chill and you had to "process" something. Was that about us? Is Jon jealous? When y'all decided to become an ENM relationship, what was your true intention? I ask these questions because if I am the cause of any issues, we need to discuss them and figure out what's going to happen. I care for you. I want you to be happy, content, and safe. I don't want you to do anything you do not want to. And I want you to be free to do what you want.
My sympathies, jealousy is an insidious little bugger. I saw in your other post that Jon may be an "ENM for me not for thee" type. Though it seems that the ENM was going well for a bit. Maybe he realised his feelings for Kay were more monogamous than he understood them to be (forgive my monogamy bias, per my last comment haha).
I like your idea of messaging Kay and finding out where she's at, and how things have evolved - if you have already, I hope you were able to have a fruitful discussion. If not, I think it's your best approach.
One more thought. You're in your 30s now, they're in their mid 20s. As you approach this, try to remember how unstable and odd life was at that age - simultaneously being on top of the world and completely lost. Your extra years and maturity may help you navigate your own feelings about this and bring compassion for yourself and them as the situation unpacks, esp. if it turns hard (easier said than done, I know).
I hope things pan out well for you, and you're able to shift back to enjoying your ENM relationship. All the best :)
Offer to please Jon sexually in order to ease the tension. Only way forward, I'm afraid.
I have honestly thought about offering him the opportunity to join us.
J and K have or had a thing going? What is enm?
I think ENM stands for ethical non-monogamy. So a consensual open relationship.
Looks like J is not so consensual.
Yes, they're in an open, committed relationship. That's basically what ENM is. But there's supposed to be communication.
Letters make this hard to follow. Fake names would be much easier to read.
I fixed it for you!
Thank you!
At a minimum your current situation is going to be dramatic, it could even get dangerous depending on how people handle this situation.
Red flags in abundance
That's what I want to avoid. I ended up walking into a shit show.
The ideal place to ask for help with your relationships: romantic, friendships, we don't know what we are yet, co-workers or just human interactions in general.
Please make sure you read our rules before posting.
Rules can be clicked on to be expanded.
1: Treat all users with respect. [!]
The goal of this community is helping OP and readers, not making fun of them. We are an inclusive community, any sort of disrespect towards ethnicity, sexual orientation, religion, etc, will not be tolerated.
2: Mark sexual content as NSFW. [!]
Posts containing mentions or descriptions of sexual topics must be tagged as NSFW. This includes descriptions of sexual acts, requests for advice in the bedroom, explicit descriptions of your body and similar content.
3: All posts must be a request for advice.
All posts must be phrased as a request for advice or as a question. Sharing of stories, personal anecdotes, or past mistakes are only allowed if they're followed by a clear and relevant request for advice with the situation.
4: Provide sufficient and relevant information.
Your title and body need to contain enough information relevant to your situation, such as ages, genders, and the relationship between people mentioned. For privacy-related concerns, we recommend using fake names and broad general locations.
5: Comments must be on topic and relevant to OP.
Comments must be directly related to helping OP, asking for more information, providing relevant resources or otherwise relevant to the thread. Off-topic comments and remarks, suspicious attempts at gathering personal data from OP or other readers, or bullying will not be tolerated.
6: This is a community for requesting advice, not moral judgement.
Moral judgements, "AITA?" and other similar questions are better served by different communities.
Reddit reposts are allowed.
As a temporary measure and the result of a poll, Reddit reposts are allowed following an expanded set of rules: https://lemmy.world/post/317115
How are rules enforced and bans applied?
For the most part, this community operates under the assumption that users are acting in good faith and should be given second-chances for their mistakes. Posts and comments with very light rule violations, or otherwise undesired but mostly harmless content, can be removed by a moderator on a case by case basis without any further punitive actions.
For violations of our rules, we follow a “3 strike” system as follows:
1st violation: 72 hours ban + moderator warning via PMs.
2nd violation: 1 week ~ 1 month ban + final warning via PMs.
3rd violation: 1 month ~ permanent ban.
The goal of this system is making sure users are made aware of their behavior before being permanently banned, but also protecting the community from any rule violations.
Exceptions:
While the “3 strike” system will be applied to the majority of situations, rules marked with a [!] in the sidebar signifies a rule that, if violated in an intentional, malicious or significant way, can warrant an immediate permanent ban regardless of the number of previous violations. This includes severe disrespect to users or groups, dangerous content, and similar.
Adulting: !adulting@lemmy.world
No Stupid Questions: !nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
Mental Health !mentalhealth@lemmy.world