this post was submitted on 18 Oct 2023

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208

Israel to Release Footage, Recordings in Gaza Hospital Explosion (www.wsj.com)

submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by DolphinMath@slrpnk.net to c/world@lemmy.world

52 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Israeli military spokesman Daniel Hagari said in a briefing early Wednesday morning that no Israeli strike, either by air, land or sea, occurred near Al-Ahli Arab Hospital at the time of the deadly explosion. He added that drone footage, radar information and a recording of Gaza militants indicate a misfired Islamic Jihad rocket was responsible.

He said the Israeli military would soon publish the radar info, footage and a recording of militants in Gaza assigning blame to Islamic Jihad, a group aligned with Hamas. All the information, Hagari said, would be given to President Biden as part of a "full briefing" when the U.S. leader arrives in Israel Wednesday.

Palestinian Ambassador to the U.N. Riyad Mansour accused Israel of carrying out the strike, calling Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu a liar for blaming the strike on the armed group Islamic Jihad. “Now they change the story to try to blame the Palestinians. It is a lie,” Mansour said during a press conference at the U.N. headquarters.

Edit: From the IDF’s official Telegram Channel

Post 1:

IDF: A failed rocket launch by the Islamic Jihad terrorist organization hit the Al Ahli hospital in Gaza City

Attached is a video from the IAF system that captured the area around the hospital before and after the failed rocket launch by the Islamic Jihad terrorist organization: https://bit.ly/3M5oQMI

Post 2:

IDF: Following the briefing by the IDF Spokesperson Rear Admiral Daniel Hagari on the failed rocket launch by the Islamic Jihad terrorist organization that hit the hospital in Gaza City:

Attached is the briefing: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC1810202362

Attached is a recording of a conversation between Hamas operatives regarding the Islamic Jihad failed rocket launch on the hospital on October 17, 2023: https://bit.ly/3S4xqiG

Attached is a visual analysis following the IAF’s examination on the subject: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC1810156854

Attached is an infographic of all the failed rocket launches in the Gaza Strip since the beginning of the war: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/1810202309876543672

Attached is a photograph from the IDF launch identification system on the subject: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC18102023984

Post 3:

Following the recording that was sent out, attached is a transcript of the conversation between Hamas operatives: https://IDFANC.activetrail.biz/ANC181020238465

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[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 44 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Why are we talking and not doing? Just release it already if it's vindicating.

[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 37 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It takes a long time to extract and compile evidence. Especially when it is this important. It will need to be checked over as well before anything is released.

[–] plz1@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

They also need to redact anything damning...

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[–] thoro@lemmy.ml 37 points 2 years ago

Ok great. Do it.

[–] drekly@lemmy.world 35 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-air-force-bomb-gaza-hamas-6000-times-continue-relentlessly-2023-10

This was 6 days ago.

More bombs in 6 days than a year in Afghanistan. And it's been a further 6 days.

Why are they even bothering to deny they did this when they're the ones bombing Gaza over and over.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 31 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I'd be very interested to see their evidence, especially given the initial claim that they hit the hospital because HAMAS were there. The video that I saw shows a fuck off huge explosion, and I'd be very surprised to learn that a Jihadist group's rocket did that. AFAIK, most of their rockets are anti-personnel and anti-armor grade, stuff a little like what the HIMARS carries, not shit that's going to level half a hospital in one go. I mean, unless they're just casually rocking Tomahawk cruise missiles or something, it just seems like a big reach.

[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 25 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Do you have a source for this initial claim? The only one I have seen is a random tweet by a wannabe Israel fanatic influencer, and not at all an official statement.

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[–] PvtGetSum@lemm.ee 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Other than things that could be explosive in a hospital normally (O2 canisters), Hamas has been known to use hospitals to store munitions and launch rocket strikes in the past. While I'm not saying "Israel definitely didn't do it" I don't think it's out of the question or even unlikely that it genuinely wasn't an Israeli strike

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

O2 doesn't explode. I've done 13 years in EMS, handled the stuff daily, tried it. O2 doesn't and wouldn't explode like that. Concentrated O2 WILL make a fire burn MUCH more aggressively, but not explode.

[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Confirmed

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That it was a rocket?

[–] luthis@lemmy.nz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

That under normal conditions o2 won't explode, it will just make intense fire. It's a bit hard to find info on if it explodes if a rocket hits it.

Regardless, the crater shows the rocket didn't hit the hospital anyway.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'm telling you, it shouldn't explode even if a rocket hits it. You can get pure O2 as hot as you like and it won't burn; kick it, shock it, pressurize it, stick it in a stew, it won't burn. Oxygen is a necessary part of combustion, but O2 itself does not combust; it has to have something to chemically interact with, like Hydrogen or Carbon. A lot of your explosives are things that already have oxygen built in to the molecule, IIRC, and can therefore release all of its energy all at once, where materials like Gasoline (and a lot of rocket fuels that I'm aware of) that don't have built-in oxygen will only burn as fast as oxygen can get to the molecules.

Maybe you're thinking of something like a BLEVE, which I suppose something similar is possible if there was a bunch of rocket fuel that functionally got vaporized on impact to make a fuel-air mix, but I don't think that's typically how it goes with rocket impacts.

Anyway, yes, the crater seems to be in a parking lot, so that's that.

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[–] Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There was also a video clip I saw that starts with a chain link fence and then you hear a sort of whistling sound and something slams down hard with a pretty big explosion. Ofc I'm not sure it's verified or not but sounded and looked more like the impact of something like a JDAM instead of what you'd expect from the rockets fired by Hamas/Islamic jihad. Which although I understand are deadly, especially in large numbers, I don't think have the explosive charge anywhere close to the impact in the video (which also seems immediate and not a bunch of secondary explosions.)

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I saw that same video, reminded me a whole hell of a lot of the videos that dropped after Ukraine got a package of JDAMs from us.

[–] Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah I found it just now. I know people here usually prefer Piped, etc but the Piped link to it was acting flaky for me and not playing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCSugJpGdO4

And yeah here's what a JDAM sounds like, like you said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_uwzugvv-g

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 4 points 2 years ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=cCSugJpGdO4

https://www.piped.video/watch?v=A_uwzugvv-g

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

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[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Any unpowered ballistic object falling out of the sky descends at the same velocity and acceleration, regardless of its size or mass.

An unpowered rocket will fall at the same speed as a dropped bomb. The horizontal and vertical vectors are separate.

[–] hassanmckusick@lemmy.discothe.quest 4 points 2 years ago

No. This is all kinds of wrong.

First off you seem to imply that velocity = acceleration which is totally wrong. Then you talk about stuff that is true in a vacuum but not true when you factor in air resistance (like you would have to on earth). And finally you draw a conclusion your evidence does not actually support.

An unpowered rocket will fall at the same speed as a dropped bomb.

Only if they are the same shape and mass.

Maybe you were trying to say something about terminal velocity but you're conclusion would be wrong anyways. Surface area absolutely effects terminal velocity.

[–] figaro@lemdro.id 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oof. Ngl the recording is pretty telling. But it is just secondhand evidence.

The evidence presented from the recording is: someone said the shrapnel is from a Palestinian rocket." Not, "here are images of the shrapnel, which could only come from Palestinian rockets."

I haven't looked at the other evidence though. It could be that this, combined with the rest of the evidence, paints a more complete picture.

[–] conditional_soup@lemm.ee 1 points 2 years ago

This is what I was thinking of looking for. I know in the Ukraine conflict, they typically show rocket debris when going over incidents with rockets, so I was hoping to see some of the supposed debris here.

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'll just leave this here with the warning that the "graphic video" shows dead babies and blown up people so you may want to skip that one.

One of the other videos is of the impact. You can clearly hear a projectile before the explosion. I'm not claiming to know who fired it.

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israels-spin-about-hospital-massacre-quickly-comes-apart

[–] DolphinMath@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

If you take The Electronic Intifada at face value, I really don’t know what to tell you. They are one of the most biased news outlets possible in this conflict. I’ve never one seen them once try to understand the Israeli perspective. It’s pure propaganda.

Fore example, their headline for Hamas’ brutal attack on Irsaeli civilians was “Israel-Arab normalization has not eliminated the resistance.”

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

@DolphinMath@slrpnk.net It looks like the copy/pasta here might run afoul of the rules regarding copyright.

Consider editing it down to make it more concise and be guaranteed to be fair use. The topic is important and I don't want to just remove it wholesale to eliminate copyright risk.

👶 🛁 🌊

[–] dumdum666@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Crosspost from another similar thread:

So this here is the current view on the area where supposedly about 500 people died. Also there are allegedly more than 300 wounded.

Questions I personally have:

where is the rubble and where is the bomb crater?
why does the building seem undamaged?
how do you fit 800 people in this parking lot?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/18/israel-hamas-war-live-news-gaza-hospital-west-bank-update-joe-biden-visit-protests-latest-updates

[–] PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Yeah, you can't. That parking lot accommodates what, 20 cars? That should tell you all you need to know.

Edit - I just checked on Google Earth. The entire outdoor area hit by the rocket is 2,000 m2 including all of the parking and landscaped area.

That is 21,000 SF or ~1/2 an acre.

While you could fit more than 500 people in that area, you would have to remove the cars and pack people in like a stadium or mosh pit. At the same time, this is at a hospital.

However, most of the small buildings that make up this hospital are on the far side of the compound, hundreds of feet away. And that is where I would expect most of the people to be.

I think we need more confirmation otherwise I would not take this number at face value.

[–] dumdum666@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Okay I actually made the effort to listen to the Audio and took a look at those photos.

The two men in the audio recording are talking about a misfire that happened directly behind the hospital - from a nearby cemetery to be exact.

https://bit.ly/3S4xqiG

On the other hand there is a picture attached that shows a rocket launch site that is quite a long way from the Hospital - or is this the cemetery those men in the voice recording were talking about?

https://idfanc.activetrail.biz/ANC18102023984

It does not seem to be the right picture…

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[–] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago

They should bomb Gaza if it turns out it was Hamas. /s

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