this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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One Woman in the Justice League

Just one woman, maybe two, in a team or group of men.

Also watch Jimmy Kimmel's "Muscle Man' superhero skit - "I'm the girly one"

The Avengers:

In Marvel Comics:

"Labeled "Earth's Mightiest Heroes," the original Avengers consisted of Iron Man, Ant-Man, Hulk, Thor and the Wasp. Captain America was discovered trapped in ice in The Avengers issue #4, and joined the group after they revived him."

5 / 6 original members are male. Only one is female.

Modern films (MCU):

The original 6 Avengers were Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, and Black Widow.

Again, 5 / 6 original members are male. Only one is female.

Justice League

In DC comics:

"The Justice League originally consisted of Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and Aquaman"

6 / 7 original members are male. Only one is female.

In modern films (DCEU):

The members were/are Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Flash, Cyborg. (+ introducing Martian Manhunter (in Zack Snyder's Justice League director's cut))

5 / 6 main members in both versions of the Justice League film are male, with appearances by a 7th member in the director's cut who is also male. Only one member is female.

The Umbrella Academy (comics and show)

7 members:

  1. Luther (Number One / Spaceboy)
  2. Diego (Number Two / The Kraken)
  3. Allison (Number Three / The Rumor)
  4. Klaus (Number Four / The Séance)
  5. Five (Number Five / The Boy)
  6. Ben (Number Six / The Horror)
  7. Vanya (Number Seven / The White Violin) Later becomes known as Viktor and nonbinary in the television adaptation after Elliot Page's transition but that's not really relevant to this.

Here, 5 / 7 original members are male. Only two are female. Only slightly better than the other more famous superhero teams, and they had to add another member (compared to Avengers' 6 members) to improve the ratio (maybe executives still demanded to have 5 males).

Now let's look at some sitcoms and other stories.

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia:

4 males, and 1 female slightly less prominent character who is abused constantly. The show claims to be politically aware and satirical but gets away with a lot of misogynistic comedy, tbh, that I'm willing to bet a lot of people are finding funny for the wrong reasons.

Community:

Jeff, Britta, Abed, Troy, Annie, Pierce, Shirley. This one is a little better, 3/7 are female. Notice it's always more males though, they never let it become more than 50% female, or else then it's a "chick flick" or a "female team up" or "gender flipped" story. And of course the main character, and the leading few characters, are almost always male or mostly male.

Stranger Things:

Main original group of kids consisted of: Mike, Will, Dustin, Lucas, and El (Eleven). 1 original female member, who is comparable to an alien and even plays the role of E.T. in direct homage. When they added Max, I saw people complaining that although they liked her, there should be only one female member. 🤦

Why is it 'iconic' to have only one female in a group of males? Does that just mean it's the tradition, the way it's always been? Can't we change that? Is it so that all the men can have a chance with the one girl, or so the males can always dominate the discussion with their use of force and manliness? Or so that whenever the team saves the day, it's mostly a bunch of men doing it, but with 'a little help' from a female/a few females (at most), too!

It's so fucked up and disgusting to me I've realised. And men don't seem to care. I'm a male and this is really disturbing to me now that I've woken up to it. How do women feel about this? Am I overreacting?

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[–] mavu@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I don't know if it's because i'm not a native speaker, but i consider people who use "male" and especially "female" instead of "men" or "women" very very weird at best.

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[–] andrewta@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I can't speak for anyone else. But for me personally. I don't mind if they have a female or male lead. What I care about is if the story and characters are believable. Many times it's like they just said well here we are going to have a female lead just because. Yet when you look at the story and at the character it doesn't make sense.

Ex :

A strong female lead who is supposed to be commanding people and yet when she gives commands it just comes across as bitchy not assertive. And when you look at the story the character wouldn't have the training to be able to know even what to do.

It's like the director and writers just had to put a female on the screen.

The above example is just an example not meant to point at a specific movie or show.

A few of movies where they did it right.

The women in the movie Red. That was excellent writing and acting. The original Alien movie was awesome. Oh yeah and Mr and Mrs Smith kicked ass Angelina was awesome in that movie

To many current movies just feel like a board room full of people with an agenda of let's make a movie with a female lead without asking if the scenario makes sense.

This is just my opinion as I can't speak for others.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.earth 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

A strong female lead

Women are strong in a different way to men and writers just gender swapping a male character is always fucking obnoxious.

[–] zurohki@aussie.zone 7 points 1 month ago

A lot of writers apparently have no idea how to write interesting female characters. Some of the pushback from viewers / readers to increasing the number of female characters isn't about the characters being female, it's about them being bad characters. Boring, annoying, quippy, etc.

Nobody wants to admit that their movie flopped because it wasn't very good, so they blame sexism. Or piracy, that one's always popular.

[–] Kanzar@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago (4 children)

as bitchy not assertive

Too often, a behavior is considered bossy or bitchy in a woman, but would be considered assertive or commanding in a man.

A woman crying is emotional and can't be trusted to 'do what needs to be done', a man punching holes in walls is just frustrated and can be relied upon when the going gets tough.

...or at least that's what our rather misogynistic culture likes to tell us.

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[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago

Insecurity. "Males" is a pretty wide brush in this case

[–] Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 10 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I've always thought it was absolutely insane that the kids show paw patrol has 6 dogs with just ONE girl dog, along with the human lead being a boy.

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[–] j4k3@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago (7 children)

I hate when a story is forced into any agenda. Like making Daneel a woman in Foundation is atrocious because it has other implications across all of Asimov's stories like with Gladia and Jander, the relationship with Elijah and family dynamic, how Solarians perceive Daneel, and the nuance and contrast between Daneel and Dors just to name a few off the top of my head.

These are stupid people making last minute frivolous and agenda based pandering nonsense decisions. It is disingenuously stealing from the richness of the story these films are supposedly depicting. If they can't tell the story they claim, they should be creating an independent work that stands entirely on its own instead of butchering the original art that should be told with full scope in the long term.

If you want to tell a female lead story, awesome. Pick a good one to start with. God Emperor of Dune is all about super strong women in roles. I mean there is an army of all women that outright rape men in battle. There are all levels of women present in that story. Chapterhouse Dune is another all about female leading roles. Tell the story around Susan Calvin in Asimov's stories. There are tons of these types of stories. Hacking and butchering a universe or fitting a female lead in by committee agenda is absolutely garbage. Like Star Wars is a story about inevitable authoritarianism and exceptionalism where no one else is relevant. Trying to make that into some diversity flick is absurd. It is ultimately the wrong story from the start. I loved it growing up, but it is what it is and nostalgia is often blind. The story has an underlying ethos that is the foundation of the universe. It is flawed. So what, it can still be entertaining. When that ethos is in conflict, the story stops having any relevant value. Build a new story on a better foundation. Reshaping old stories shows that the entire premise is overly conservative bankers that treat art as investment. Bankers are shitty artists. They are incapable of being bold and trying new and novel things. There is no art in such endeavors. I have no problem with female leads. I take issue with terrible art by committee and bankers.

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[–] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago

because many people are uncomfortable with change and having women suddenly appearing more frequently thatn their use to upsets them. You'll find this fear of the unknown a very common source of much stupidity.

You're not over reacting. It is that fucked up. welcome to the insanity.

[–] Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

I didn't complain.

[–] That_Devil_Girl@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)
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[–] Spawn7586@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Me, a male reading mostly manhwa of the romance fantasy genre where 99% of it have female protagonists: yeah, this is not talking about me. This kind of discussions are more about creating conflict rather than understanding. If people have time to start fights about the sex of the characters they have no interest in the story itself. Statistics on who is drawn more are kinda useless...

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[–] neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I do not have a problem with a female lead in a show. One thing that may be overlooked her is when they make a movie with a female lead and make a bad movie.

My wife watches a lot of spy, military action type movies. A lot of the time, the stories are poorly written and cheesy when they put a female lead in the show.

One example of this was a movie where the girls dad who died was CIA. His daughter somehow ends up involved in some CIA thing and is able to survive the whole thing even though she has no formal training. So, while this issue occurs with male leads, there are fewer movies like this with female leads so it may look like there is a higher percentage of movies with female leads that people do not like.

Look at the movies with female leads that are great, (Almost anything with Michelle Yeoh), Star Trek Discovery, Star Trek Lower Decks, hidden figures, Alien, Zero Dark Thirty. I am sure there are more that I can't think of.

I think that the female lead may get blamed for a bad movie, or people just don't like bad movies and it is assumed it is because it is a female lead.

[–] cheesymoonshadow 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'm a woman, and what bothers me is when the woman is not believable in that role. Men are generally stronger than women -- that's just a fact. But some women are exceptionally strong and trained in combat. If you're going to cast someone in a role that's supposed to show us a strong woman, then for fuck's sake, she'd better be a strong woman, not a gorgeous woman who just looks great in a tank top and a sheen of sweat. It's obvious she would be easily overpowered by any of her male opponents, but we're supposed to believe that she's kicking all their asses.

Someone else suggested Alien would be accused of wokeness had it been released today. I don't think so. Ripley was just a regular, somewhat fit woman, and the things she did were believable for someone with her physique and level of training. That's why that movie works.

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[–] Magnus@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (7 children)

I have no idea, but I think this video is on to something.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CGL7_CO3YDg

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Please remove the &pp=ygU... tracking parameter from your link.

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[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Depends on show type you choose. If you watch a series like Deep Water or DeadLoch its all woman driven stories, and minor roles for men. If you pick a superhero genre that has been male dominated forever, it is going to be mostly men still.

[–] jimmux@programming.dev 8 points 1 month ago (4 children)

It didn't even occur to me that Deadloch is mostly about women, even though that shouldn't be surprising, given who made it.

I had a similar revelation after I played through Forspoken. I assumed it would be a target for the anti-woke brigade since the protagonist is a black woman, but it was only after finishing it clicked that every character of consequence is a woman (with one exception I won't mention for spoiler reasons).

If the story keeps you invested, genders are pretty irrelevant. I think genre expectations can shift if we don't draw attention to them.

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[–] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Nobody notices things that conform to their expectations—but when anything violates their expectations, they assume it’s a deliberate message. (Even if it’s fiction violating their genre expectations in the direction of reality.)

And if they can’t figure out what the message is supposed to be, they let other people tell them. And if people tell them different things, they go with the one that makes them feel the strongest reaction.

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