this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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[–] kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 52 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The US is one of the most watered down democracies, even for a liberal democracy (which is severely watered down). Its a system where the needs of the many are filtered through the needs of the few. We dont need to "fix" liberal democracy, we need workers democracy (syndicalism).

[–] Ilixtze@lemm.ee 7 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

New banana republic just dropped!

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[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 108 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Oh, but were not a democracy, were a constitutional republic hardy har har har har

  • my republican friends.
[–] RustyShackleford@programming.dev 49 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

we're a constitutional federal republic, with democratically elected representatives, but a plutocracy, in practice

  • me, a political science pedant of highest/worst order
[–] FilthyHookerSpit@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'd like to subscribe to more political pedantry

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[–] Astra@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

As a political science pedant, can you explain to me the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic? I tried to Google "constitutional republic" but I just got a Wikipedia page that said they were the same thing.

Which I guess would fit, since republicans are absolute dumbfucks, but if there's actually some nuance there, I'm curious to know.

Thanks!

[–] RustyShackleford@programming.dev 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

If the question is "What's the difference?", then, as is tradition, we must figuratively clear our throats before such discourse with the well-worn adage, "It depends."

As a disclaimer, much of this content was copied from Wikipedia and arranged in a way to support my opinion; none of this should be taken as Gospel. This is not financial advice. And please accept my apologies for the tedious length.

If we limit our terms' definitions to their etymological roots, then:

Democracy

  • The term democracy first appeared in ancient Greek political and philosophical thought in the city-state of Athens during classical antiquity. The word comes from dêmos '(common) people' and krátos 'force/might'.

  • In a direct democracy, the people have the direct authority to deliberate and decide legislation. In a representative democracy, the people choose governing officials through elections to do so. The definition of "the people" and the ways authority is shared among them or delegated by them have changed over time and at varying rates in different countries.

Republic

  • The term originates from the Latin translation of Greek word politeia. Cicero, among other Latin writers, translated politeia into Latin as res publica, and it was in turn translated by Renaissance scholars as republic (or similar terms in various European languages). The term can literally be translated as 'public matter'. It was used by Roman writers to refer to the state and government, even during the period of the Roman Empire. The term politeia can be translated as form of government, polity, or regime, and it does not necessarily imply any specific type of regime as the modern word republic sometimes does.

  • A republic, based on the Latin phrase res publica ('public affair' or 'people's affair'), is a state in which political power rests with the public (people) through their representatives—in contrast to a monarchy. Although a republic is most often a single sovereign state, subnational state entities that have governments that are republican in nature may be referred to as republics.

  • Representation in a republic may or may not be freely elected by the general citizenry. In many historical republics, representation has been based on personal status and the role of elections has been limited. This remains true today; among the 159 states that use republic in their official names as of 2017, and other states formally constituted as republics, are states that narrowly constrain both the right of representation and the process of election.

  • The term developed its modern meaning in reference to the constitution of the ancient Roman Republic, lasting from the overthrow of the kings in 509 BC to the establishment of the Empire in 27 BC. This constitution was characterized by a Senate composed of wealthy aristocrats wielding significant influence; several popular assemblies of all free citizens, possessing the power to elect magistrates from the populace and pass laws; and a series of magistracies with varying types of civil and political authority.

Plutocracy

  • A plutocracy (from Ancient Greek πλοῦτος (ploûtos) 'wealth' and κράτος (krátos) 'power') or plutarchy is a society that is ruled or controlled by people of great wealth or income. The first known use of the term in English dates from 1631. Unlike most political systems, plutocracy is not rooted in any established political philosophy.

  • Some modern historians, politicians, and economists argue that the U.S. was effectively plutocratic for at least part of the Gilded Age and Progressive Era periods between the end of the Civil War until the beginning of the Great Depression. 

  • President Theodore Roosevelt became known as the "trust-buster" for his aggressive use of antitrust law, through which he managed to break up such major combinations as the largest railroad and Standard Oil, the largest oil company. According to historian David Burton, "When it came to domestic political concerns, TR's bête noire was the plutocracy." In his autobiographical account of taking on monopolistic corporations as president, Roosevelt recounted:

...we had come to the stage where for our people what was needed was a real democracy; and of all forms of tyranny the least attractive and the most vulgar is the tyranny of mere wealth, the tyranny of a plutocracy.

On paper, we (the U.S.) are a not a direct democracy, though we do vote directly about some issues via referendums; our constitution codifies the extents and limitations of legislation, enforcement, and jurisprudence of our laws and our rights as citizens.

We directly elect representatives to carry out the business of governance from local, state, to the federal level as our country's political union is a federation of States that simultaneously retain their autonomy via the parameters outlined within the constitution and cede ultimate authority of jurisprudence to our bicameral national assembly (in our case, Congress) and Supreme Court.

In practice, due to regulatory capture, political expedience and corruption, and the realities of our global economic expansion, our country is effectively ruled by 2 factions of a political class of wealth that use faux-populism to maintain their power and influence.

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[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 6 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Do your friends not understand that Republics are a small subset of Democracies?

[–] danc4498@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

Yes, though in all fairness, they were acquaintances. I unfriended them.

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 133 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And a few days after that, PragerU releases a video titled "Why democracies will fail eventually", which tells its viewers that democracy creates "moral decadence", and now a "strong leader" is needed to fix the issue, who might have told some noble lies like a parent tells their kid the stork brings the children when they're not ready for reality. And the video ends with a "Roman salute" over "God Bless America".

[–] DancingBear@midwest.social 46 points 1 day ago (14 children)

People tell their kids the stork brings babies because the parent is the one not ready to have the conversation.

The parent is avoiding their own humiliation. Telling kids how babies are made is not embarassing for kids. Kids have no reason to feel shame or judgement about these kinds of things….

Just pointing this out to show that the metaphor here is deeply flawed.

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[–] teri@discuss.tchncs.de 50 points 1 day ago (2 children)

"Could lose"? We are long past this point. When you can chose between two parties and they try to manipulate the election as hard as they can, then that's a zombie democracy at best. And now? The president stands above the law. He can fire people illegally. He can disable law enforcement. Democracy in the US is gone. Hopefully only temporarily. Now it's up to people to act, take their rogue government down and repair what can be repaired.

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