I mean yeah. I make above that and it feels genuinely hard to keep up with the costs of living middle class in California.
this post was submitted on 25 Jun 2025
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Yeah, sounds about right if you want to be able to be comfortable at home and have money for maybe a modest vacation once a year.
I make way less, but it would be nice to be able to afford to travel at least once a year. Not worry about car repairs setting me back etc etc.
Don't forget any shot at a reasonable retirement too
I’m planning to die to reduce my spend.
That is, most literally, my plan. Not going to suicide, but either the environment or shit politics will take me out before I'm too elderly.
And I'm not being snarky. No healthcare and seeing the ecosystem collapse has done me in. And for the young, you haven't seen the shit I've seen. Our systems are racing towards a cliff. You'd be even madder if you had lived my young life and seen where we're at now.
I'm either going to die in the water riots or I'll be shot dead by a Google Amazon compliance assistance team for using an adblocker.
Who cares what people "feel"? It has nothing to do with "feelings". Just calculate how much it actually costs to live comfortably, and you'll find that $150k works.
You can't define "comfortably" without feeling.
You can, though. At least to the extent of saying that "comfortable" means that all your basic needs are met, and you have money left over for more than that. How much more, is a matter of preference...but as long as that basic minimum is met, the rest is just different degrees of comfort.
Read the article. It tells you the numbers, and has an alternative definition of "comfortable": financially secure.
Make sure to read before telling people what's meant.
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Feelings are important because without them, there would be a concrete number of dollars at which a person starves to death. One more dollar and they live. Once we know that number, the right wing will begin pushing everyone towards it.
Feelings are important because I want to enjoy a twinkie every now and then. I want to be able to afford a day off for mental health, or a friend's birthday. There should be healthy ambiguity in the number of dollars it costs to live because without it there's just near-starvation.
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Yeah, this hits home all right. I'm Gen-X, and while I always got by OK on a very low income even here in Seattle, it was entirely due to have a very modest lifestyle and the sheer luck of that rarest of Seattle unicorns, reasonable rent.
The stars aligned, and over the course of only a few years I've suddenly moved into a very comfortable 6 figure salary, and oh holy jebus words cannot express how much stress just…evaporates…when you've got enough to cover all expenses and easily sock away some money too.
Of course, that was promptly replaced by a new stress, the realization that I might just possibly thread the needle and end up with a comfortable retirement—not rich mind you, just not in penury—but I now had to save, save, save, save, save.
Work affords me access to both a 403B and a 457B, which has helped immensely in my quest to get savings built up appropriate for my age bracket, but all that anxiety is back now that I've got a retirement fund that was on track, but now the orange twitiot is doing his damndest to wreck our economy, likely for good. I'm just waiting to watch everything I've invested go up in smoke. It's nerve-wracking, but hey, at least I'm Gen-X and know exactly what it's like to live with existential dread. After a childhood fearing nuclear holocaust at any moment, this new anxiety is practically a cakewalk!
Oh, who am I kidding? It still sucks.
Fuck.
Just want to say, to a fellow slacker, I get you. OTOH, my nerves aren't too wrecked yet. Like you, I know how to be poor, but fuck me, I didn't expect an environmental and political holocaust to drop on my old ass.
"Feel" nice trick to make it sound like they are spoiled and not just doing basic math to figure out that everything is expensive.
Particularly since that has to also include investing for later retirement in an entirely uncertain economic future.
The other way to read this data is that 75% (a sizable majority) of people feel they can be comfortable on less than $150k. I also suspect this strongly correlates to location. Someone living in Washington, DC is going to need a lot more to feel comfortable than someone living in Bumblefuck, MO.
Why is the cost of living so incredibly high in the US?
It cannot be because of consumer goods. Because both Europe and the US have similar prices for those since they are made by international companies.
It cannot be food, the US is a big exporter of food. And those exports go to countries with lower costs of living.
It cannot be vacations. You could "just" fly to Europe and have european vacation prices.
Is it just housing and healthcare?
Yes it is housing and healthcare. Even with health insurance, a major sickness can bankrupt anybody, especially when insurance denies coverage.
Which is why I'm considering a Do Not Resuscitate. I don't want some asshole EMT to bring me back.
That's a large portion of it yes. Don't forget that 150k salary is before taxes. The cost of food has sky rocketed lately. Don't forget transportation. If you live in a big city you might take a bus or Metro, but for most Americans there isn't a good network so add gas, car insurance, and possibly a car payment if you don't own. And if you have kids get ready for child care expenses, unless you have a stay at home parent... But then you only have one income. Rent, utilities, little glasses for Timmy, cell phone bills and those TV subscriptions you're slowly sailing the high seas on as they nickel and dime you. It all adds up.
Europeans also buy little glasses for Timmy and such. I don't think the price of those kind of things is much different. Same for utilities, phone and TV. The one I'm most uncertain about is utilities, but I believe electricity at least is usually cheaper in america.
The car one is fair. Although it's true that in Europe there's also tons of people on cars, public transit is at least a valid option, unlike in much of the US.
Taxes is not though. Taxes in america are usually way lower than in Europe.
So transportation+healthcare are the only expenses that are clearly more expensive in america. Housing being highly dependant on location is hard to compare nation-based. And it's also the biggest component. I'd be curious to see the actual "living wage" difference between two places, one Europeans and another American with similar housing prices.
Ten years ago, things might have been cheaper, but not any longer. I'm an American living in an expensive part of Europe, while also maintaining a place in a similarly expensive part of the US. I'm going to say Europe Here but I'm referring to our specific corner of Europe which has a huge range of costs. Similar for the US. Here are my actual numbers:
Electricity: Europe: 99€ US: $95
Internet: Europe: 26€ US: $62
mobile phone (per line): Europe: 17€ US: $40
grocery budget (monthly) family of two: Europe: 750€ US: $900
Health insurance monthly (private): Europe: 190€ US: $800 (partially subsidized by work, real price closer to $1200)
Car insurance monthly: Europe: 105€ US: $195
Petrol costs monthly: Europe: 225€ ~7€/gallon US: $250 ~$3.50/gallon
Oil change at car dealership: Europe: 70€ US: $95
US mortgage + tax + insurance (2 bedroom house): $1775
Europe rent + renter insurance: 1225€
Local mid range restaurant: Europe: 62€ US: $105
Dog grooming: Europe: 60€ US: $95
Vet visit: Europe: 60€ US: $150
Doctors visit (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $50
Diagnostic labs (with insurance): Europe: 30€ US: $150
The US has become shockingly expensive. Some of this is because we spend more to eat quality food when there, and we are in a bit of a touristy area. Both locations are in touristy areas though, so not entirely different. I might be in the minority but I don't see much difference in lifestyle between the two areas I frequent.
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The fruits and vegetables are about the same price but taste much better in Europe.
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The bread is far cheaper, more available and better in Europe.
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The specialty products we like to eat are much cheaper in Europe. Eg, feta cheese, french butter and jam, etc.
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The meat is about the same, maybe a bit cheaper in Europe. I don't taste much difference.
The most important differences for us are:
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If we don't feel good we go the the emergency room in Europe. Yes we will wait a long time to be seen, but the cost last time was 175€. In the US, you will wait a day to see if you feel better, because you are going to wait just as long and the bill will be a minimum of $1200 with insurance.
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We do not take the car out every day in Europe, because we can walk to a small grocery store, medical lab, print shop, bakery. We must take the car out for any trip in the US, and the distances are longer.
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Customer service in Europe is sometimes not all that helpful, and they give that impression to you when talking to them. Customer service in the US seems very nice and accommodating, but they are equally unhelpful in most cases.
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People you hire to do work for you seem to have far more variability in the US. They might be extraordinarily expensive, super cheap, might not show up, etc. In Europe, the prices seem to be on average cheaper than the US, and the workers on average a bit more reliable, but more laid back and less busy than in the US.
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And finally, most importantly, any company you deal with in the US will constantly try to extract more and more from you. Every year, prices ratchet up, new charges are itemized, things previously included now cost extra, billing mistakes are created and they are never in your favor. In Europe our experience is that companies you deal with mostly maintain prices. To be fair, some of these are sanctioned monopolies, but the same is true in the US and somehow they do it anyway. This has been our experience with insurance, utilities, car maintenance, etc. The system wears you down in the US until you have no fight left.
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Wage theft. Seriously, it is the biggest drain of money from ordinary workers.
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Half of California:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Half by land, much more by population. California’s basic cost of living is insane. $150k would be “barely scraping by in a studio apartment” within 100 miles of any major city.
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THE RENT
IS
TOO
DAMN
HIGH
The true checkmate on our society.
Trying to find a place to live where the rent won't take over 50% of my income. I work full time teaching disabled children, and after successfully negotiating for a raise, I make over $10 more per hour than my state's minimum wage.
Yet for some reason, everyone takes issue when I say I'm ready to just move into my car. I've lived in a vehicle before, it's not fun or easy, but it's a roof I already own, and from the rent prices I see, that's the best chance I've got to be guaranteed shelter.
I just need a dwelling and a guarantee of food to live comfortably. If I didn't have to pay for that I wouldn't need $150k/year. 🤷♂️
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I don't nees to make more, everything else needs to cost less. 😠
My wife and I make about $100k/yr combined. I can absolutely confirm that 50% more money will go directly into making our lives more comfortable.
wow, what afucking shithole of an economic system, huh?
I got lucky enough to live on benefits, a bit less than $15,000 annually. While I don't have to pay for housing, things like food, data, and car take up a good chunk of that money. Up until about 2 years ago, I was also able to regularly set aside about $300 a month for an ABLE account if I exercised restraint.
The economy continues to worsen, so I can't save money anymore. Plus, getting the gear and training for joining a militia takes a fair bit of coin. I am expecting the USA we knew to dissolve someday, and hopefully can support my state with my body if conflict breaks out. Don't really have anything else to offer society.
This title is so dumb. Just say 26% of Americans.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
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