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Legal loophole (startrek.website)
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[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 131 points 1 year ago

Realistically I imagine that having access to resurrection would have fairly dramatic consequences on how a society applies punishment. It'd probably be a crime of some sort to revive the executed, sorta equivalent to breaking someone out of jail, states might be more harsh with handing out death penalties when it is possible to undo them if new evidence is found, and the remains of the executed probably would be carefully stored and locked up to prevent unwanted revival and to have in case the state decides to bring someone back, assuming the body is needed for it.

Might also get things like a monarchy which kills off heirs to the throne after a certain age and stores them careful to revive when the current monarch dies or abdicates, to prevent scheming between them to increase their place on the line of succession or take over from the current ruler early, and to ensure they are young and healthy when they take the throne.

[-] Lianodel@ttrpg.network 44 points 1 year ago

I started reading Jhereg by Steven Brust, and it takes resurrection magic into account with the world building. Part of assassination involves hiding the body until the resurrection window passes. IIRC, the legal penalties for murder are also much less severe if you just kill someone, rather than make sure they're permanently dead.

There are also "Morganti" weapons. They're pretty much the Black Blade from Elric, so they eat souls. So not only do they make resurrection impossible, but the victim is extra dead, not even existing in an afterlife. As a result, using one is a high crime, punishable by death... by Morganti blade.

[-] swordsmanluke@programming.dev 17 points 1 year ago

using one is a high crime, punishable by death... by Morganti blade.

Man, if I were a soul killing assassin, with knowledge that souls and the afterlife is real... Getting my soul dissolved vs going to my eternal reward ... sounds like a pretty good deal.

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[-] Susaga@ttrpg.network 35 points 1 year ago

Death row is just instant execution, and the date you would be killed is now the last day you could be revived with common means.

[-] CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 18 points 1 year ago

If a trial is ongoing during the date you'd become unrevivable or it's considered important to extend the date for some other reason, maybe they just revive you and kill you again to reset the timer

[-] Ooops@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

maybe they just revive you and kill you again to reset the timer

The Gentle Repose industry will object...

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Gotta wonder how that goes for innocent people that decide that the afterlife is cool.

Must suck for victims of cults and devil bargains that get dragged into the hells regardless of their deeds.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 year ago

These are great world building ideas. Thanks!

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 11 points 1 year ago

In the Forgotten Realms, the Kingdom of Cormyr has strict penalties against resurrecting monarchs. The penalty is death for the resurrector, and castration + exile for the former king. And the famed War Wizards of Cormyr absolutely have the capability to enforce that law.

I'm not certain (and don't have either my notes or the novel those notes were taken from to hand), but IIRC a resurrection of someone formerly in the line of succession puts them at the end of the line, even if they were as high up as the king's eldest son prior to death.

This naturally creates an issue if the prince dies and is resurrected while a long way from the capital, and returns to the kingdom to find the king has also died while he was gone. Who died first is going to matter greatly, but might be rather difficult to determine.

[-] Archpawn@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Whose idea was that law? If I were the king and someone discovered resurrection, I'd say that if I die, I get resurrected and keep my kinghood. Likewise if I conquer an area and become a king after it already exists.

Does it at least not apply to cloning? That's the only way to avoid old age as far as I know, and I can't imagine kings would be in favor of a law that requires they grow old and die.

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[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

You forgot revival being included in the sentence, possibly multiple times over.

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[-] Tarcion@sh.itjust.works 94 points 1 year ago

Nah, this totally makes sense. Revivify costs 300 gp, which is about 5 months of work for a skilled hireling (or 4 years for an unskilled one). Laws are only for the poor.

If you convert to the relative value of labor instead of the real life value of diamonds, it's probably something like $40k to $60k to revivify someone. Seems like enough cash on hand to somehow get away with murder.

[-] explodicle@local106.com 33 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fun fact: that's exactly how much it cost for a single day of the OJ Simpson defense.

[-] Tarcion@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 year ago

Hey, that is a fun fact!

[-] Zozano@aussie.zone 6 points 1 year ago

It's fucked up that you can just pull that fact out of thin air and drop it on a DnD post.

Take my upvote you sonnovabitch

[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Going with the cost of living equivalent, it's only about $15,000, which I think still does the job of pricing out the poor

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[-] qarbone@lemmy.world 67 points 1 year ago

The punishment is a sentence of death. Not "being killed". You are to be placed in the state of death for the crime. That's why you don't get to walk away if a lethal method fails. You can keep reviving them, but they'll be incarcerated and killed again until it sticks. And I'll put the rest of the party in contempt of court for attempting to subjorn lawful punishment.

[-] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But reincarnation is canon in D&D so that would require hunting down that soul and repeatedly executing them for all eternity.

[-] zombiecalypse@feddit.ch 5 points 1 year ago

It's canon for elves, not so much for everybody else (unless you mean the spell). Though that sounds like some Mercy Killer thinking right there

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[-] mandelbrotvurst@lemmy.world 52 points 1 year ago

choose how you die

Old age.

[-] Rednax@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Sure thing. You will do so in that cage over there. To the guards: He already had his last meal.

[-] Archpawn@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Wouldn't he starve to death before dying of old age?

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[-] doctorcrimson@lemmy.today 15 points 1 year ago

That actually worked once, for a Jester named Triboulet who did things like slap the King's bottom and spread gossip. He chose his execution method as a joke and the King actually laughed, so he was exiled.

[-] TheGreatFox@lemm.ee 14 points 1 year ago

In earlier editions, Ghosts rapidly aged anyone they touched by draining their life force. Just saying.

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[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

"Not that merciful. Guards, off with his head!"

[-] GTG3000@programming.dev 50 points 1 year ago

And that's how you get your whole party executed.

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 year ago

tbf, the rest of the party is probably awaiting sentencing

[-] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Someone will have to keep a Revivify scroll up their ass to make this work

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[-] AeonFelis@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago

One should expect that in a world where resurrection is a well known possibility, courts will take that into account. Even if it's expensive and can only be performed by a selected few, the law should make sure that one cannot escape punishment by simply having money and connections.

Then again, when you look at our world...

[-] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

Using our world as a template, it probably would be illegal to revive a convict, but itd be an open secret that a few well placed bribes and a bit of influence is all it'd take to bend the rules

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[-] Zoboomafoo@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago

That's why in my setting criminals get tossed into a kiln if they're sentenced to death without parole

[-] sbv@sh.itjust.works 28 points 1 year ago

death without parole

🤣

[-] HikingVet@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

That only works if they can't be brought back with resurrection spells.

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[-] AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social 30 points 1 year ago

Of course you let them do it. You also let the victims' family be horrified by the miscarriage of justice and make it their life's work to seek revenge.

I like this. It's Faust, but make it fun. Keeps things moving

[-] Da_Boom@iusearchlinux.fyi 6 points 1 year ago

And their complete mistrust of the justice system.

Vive la revolution anyone?

[-] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 23 points 1 year ago

This is my long standing hot take and point of contention with rules as written in conventional D&D fantasy rule sets: death, if the rules of the game were actually applied to the setting, is less about finality (except for the lifespan limitation contrivance) and more about health insurance or lack thereof. People who die that have enough money should by all means have family that pay for raises (or resurrections when the body isn't available) as a matter of course and the material consequences of that would be that premature death from violence, illness, or accident would be mostly a poor people thing. Funerals would be awkward in setting: "sorry you can't afford a rez. The divines bless the departed I guess, lol."

[-] CrushKillDestroySwag@hexbear.net 18 points 1 year ago

There's this constant tension with D&D where it wants to be medieval and it wants to have easily-reproducible magic. Follow the magic through to its logical conclusion and you get essentially modern technology with a mystical/medieval aesthetic, ignore it and you get big blatant plot holes.

[-] UlyssesT@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago

There's this constant tension with D&D where it wants to be medieval and it wants to have easily-reproducible magic. Follow the magic through to its logical conclusion and you get essentially modern technology with a mystical/medieval aesthetic, ignore it and you get big blatant plot holes.

For decades, Forgotten Realms tried really had to be this "peasants have their minds blown if they see even a level one Magic-User spell being cast; this is a grounded and gritty setting sort of" pretense in the official materials, but then there's basically a magocracy running most cities (even the fucking Luskan pirates and other "savage frontier" big mean guys!) and maps full of "oh a web spell is on this window at all times" sorts of signs that maybe those peasants should be a lot more familiar with the very special very rare spellcasters that rule over them and make all the important decisions.

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[-] teft@startrek.website 16 points 1 year ago

I would at least grab the body from the corpse pile later. It’s a little less suspicious. Unless there is a time crunch then the rogue might get animated instead.

[-] A_Union_of_Kobolds@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Gotta be able to get to the body within a minute for Revivify, right?

[-] MimicJar@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Yes, although you could use Gentle Repose can look like a post death ritual and give you a ten day window.

[-] DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

Isn't this just the Jesus strat?

[-] WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That'd be if he sentenced himself to death to appease himself for everyone else breaking the rules he wrote, then re-vivified himself.

The ol' single deity circlejerk.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 7 points 1 year ago

The Holy Trinity is just 3 demi-gods in a trenchcoat.

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[-] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It is totally something that a sufficiently wealthy medieval or imperial society would do to kill and revive someone as a form of punishment, or even to kill someone and allow them to be revivified as a way of letting the rich get off easy.

[-] RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Death by russian roulette

[-] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Lord Vetinari approves

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this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2023
765 points (97.4% liked)

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