this post was submitted on 23 Aug 2025
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UK Politics

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[–] ctry21@sh.itjust.works 17 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (1 children)

The same man who pledged to abolish tuition fees, immediately abandoned that pledge to gain power, tripled them instead, and was then caught afterwards having already scrapped the plan to abolish them internally while still publicly campaigning on it?

However, leaked documents revealed that the Lib Dems had actually planned to abandon their tuition fee pledge before the election even took place.

A month before Clegg promised to get rid of the “dead weight of debt,” senior insiders said the party should “leave” the pledge before entering any negotiations to form a coalition government, saying: “Let us not cause ourselves more headaches.”

That article is an interesting read on how the big three keep lying through their teeth on tuition fees as well. And how the National Union of Students opposed tuition fees for over a decade until the now-health secretary Wes Streeting became their general secretary.

[–] stsquad@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

I'm still waiting for someone to come up with an alternative policy that keeps the widened access to further education. A graduate tax? More subsidy by foreign students? Government subsidy for strategic skill gaps?

With 50% of school leavers going to further education you need to fund that somehow.

[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 4 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It's funny how Scotland and most of the EU manage to fund it via general taxation and yet it's a mystery how England could ever manage to do it. Truly perplexing.

There's no way spending 3-4 years paying for education could result in a more intelligent population, that can therefore cover that small additional cost somehow throughout the rest of their working lives...

[–] stsquad@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Scotland did it by reducing the number of students they pay for. It's a perfectly reasonable strategy and arguably the push for greater participation in universities has resulted in a push for everything to be a university degree. There are potentially better options for students as well as the public purse.

While education in itself is certainly of value not everyone can have a career in academia. At the same time I think the state should really think about subsiding some courses. Medical students for example have a longer time training and while eventually there may be rewards later in their careers it can't be very motivating carrying around more debt than your peers.

[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

That's just straight up misinformation. Every student within Scotland is eligible for funding. Every single one.

Education doesn't mean a career in academia. It means greater critical thinking, greater ability to source reliable information, greater chance of living a long and fulfilling life.

4 years of the government covering £1,800 in tuition is fuck all in the grand scheme of things and has many benefits to society.

[–] stsquad@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

You think £1800 covers the cost of tuition? Do Scottish universities get additional funding to cover the difference? The fees in the rest of the country are much higher.

[–] Zombie@feddit.uk 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

You're missing the forest for the trees.

£1,800 is what Scotland capped education at, the Tories arbitratily decided to raise it to £9,000 in England. They initially claimed only the top universities like Oxford would charge this, but now it's pretty much the standard. But let's say for easy maths it's £10,000, per year, per student. That's a miniscule amount of money to spend to increase the intelligence of a population.

Full time work, at 40h per week, on minimum wage (£12.21), with 30 days holiday per year, nets £22,466.40.

For half a years work at minimum wage the ridiculous cost of £10,000 per year for education can be covered. For a 3 year English undergraduate degree it takes 1.5 years of minimum wage work to cover. That's fuck all for a nation to cover, especially one as rich as the UK.

For that cost you are vastly improving the scientific understanding, rationality, and intelligence of your population. For the rest of their lives. They can then also educate their children better, and so on.

University education has been privatised in an attempt to make an "us and them". To make "haves and have nots". To further entrench a class system.

Scotland provides free university education for anyone who wishes it, to create equality and break the class system. The Tories and New Labour wish no such thing.

[–] stsquad@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 hours ago

The question is how much it costs to fund higher education. The money goes via the students or the universities but it still needs to be paid. Even in my day the 3k I paid for tuition didn't cover what it cost the university to run my course. With the drop in foreign students (who pay a lot more) universities have a funding crisis and a gap to be filled.

I assume Scottish students don't get the full amount of they go to an English university? They have to take out loans to?

[–] ctry21@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 hours ago

That's true. I don't know what the answer is there, but I still think regardless of what the solution is, politicians shouldn't be promising one thing and doing another. Especially to a demographic already so cynical about politics.

[–] mannycalavera@feddit.uk 16 points 10 hours ago

‘If the people who ran Facebook ~~were monsters~~ didn't pay me a shit tonne of money, I wouldn’t have worked there

Fixed it for you, cleggers.

[–] LuckingFurker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 27 points 12 hours ago (2 children)

Says the man who cosied up to David fucking Cameron for 5 years, I don't think Nick Clegg is a good judge of who exactly is a monster

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 2 points 20 minutes ago (1 children)

He can't see the wood for the trees. I think he thinks that just because the people he worked with day to day were personable and pleasant to be around, that means the company mission isn't corrupting society.

[–] LuckingFurker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 10 minutes ago

Or... he's just a monster himself. Better at hiding it, arguably

[–] Infernal_pizza@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

And yet somehow that was still the best government we've had in the last 15 years :(

[–] LuckingFurker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 10 hours ago

Jesus that's a depressing realisation. How did it get worse from Cameron and Clegg? But somehow it did

[–] stsquad@lemmy.ml 4 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I think the tension having coalition partners in the government ultimately led them to make better decisions. We all know what happened when Cameron got his majority and no longer had the Lib Dems to hold him back.

I know tuition fees is the millstone around their neck but considering they were the junior partner they got to enact a fair amount of their policy platform. Indeed most of the more popular acts during that period the Tories like to boast about where Lib Dem initiatives.

[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 hours ago

. We all know what happened when Cameron got his majority and no longer had the Lib Dems to hold him back

He held an inadvisable referandum and quit?

[–] jonne@infosec.pub 16 points 12 hours ago

Said the guy whose previous job was to prop up Cameron's conservative government?

[–] cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 10 points 11 hours ago

monster says people he worked with aren't monsters