"Me Going Vegan Won’t Make a Difference" — Debunked. Once and for all. : vegan

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

I absolutely hate how everyone in the West internalizes "the rich are destroying the Earth more than I am which absolves me of personal responsibility to be a better human being." To the point they get pissy at you if you even suggest the possibility that there even exists things they can do today to lessen their burden on the world but at the cost of their convenience and things they enjoy. They're not rich so in their mind they're entitled to enjoy everything they can get their hands on and you're the problem if you point out the harmful effects of their actions. Guess what? The rich are destroying the Earth through your actions that support their businesses. Whenever you buy McDonald's, drive your car, use AI, buy fast fashion or cosmetics tested on animals, you're doing their bidding. "It's not my fault, it's rich people's fault" they say as they buy an overpriced drive through burger and eat it while sitting in their car on the side of a freeway that destroyed an entire ecosystem during construction. Where do you think slaughtered animals are going if not to the people deliberately buying meat? People think when the capitalist class is finally overthrown no one will care if they continue to live a capitalist lifestyle? No, after the revolution the laws will most likely be changed to require changes like going vegan and commuting by public transit, not because of commie totalitarianism wanting to control you, but because we will go extinct if we keep living like this. So if you claim to be an anticapitalist, why not start making those changes now?

Seriously, go vegan and stop driving. Bam, carbon footprint cut by more than half. You can do it today without the rich's approval.

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 days ago

People be spouting "No ethical consumption under capitalism!!" right before defending the most unethical of the options.

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I agree fully, except it's far from "everyone" that believes this; a lot of people, especially in the west, are still in denial about climate change and plastic waste. Heck, my own mother thinks that climate change is good because "summers will be longer and crops will have more time to grow", and it's a common sentiment among her social group (elderly russians)

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Doesn't change the length of the summer, of course. Climate-appropriate plants need sunlight, not heat. You'll be able to grow things you couldn't grow before, but your growing season will still be just as short.

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You’ll be able to grow things you couldn’t grow before

(you will also not be able to grow some things you could grow before)

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 days ago

Good point, though my intuition thinks that is going to be a much smaller set.

[+] Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

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[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

The hell does autism have to do with this? If you have to be autistic to be ethical then maybe everyone else should take a page out of the autists' book.

Also, you can be employed while eating plants. The idea that you need meat for energy is a modern fabrication by the meat industry. Look at what the Ancient Greek Olympians ate, it was mostly vegetarian with meat mostly in the festival after the games. Modern mountaineers climbing Mount Everest are told to eat sugar and carbs for energy, not meat. Unless you're a muckbanger or something what you eat has nothing to do with your job, especially if it's a computer based job where you should actually be reducing the calories you eat since you sit all day, and in that case we know that carbs are more readily converted to energy for the brain than meat. IDK about you but my appetite has plumetted now that I'm working remotely and don't leave the house most days (even though my workload has increased), and when I do I get hungry I crave bread not meat.

[+] Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 days ago (2 children)

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[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Autistic people tend to have a stronger sense of justice ...
... reduced meat diet ...

The datapoint you are presenting is, locally among the people you are speaking to, that of a reduced or compromised sense of justice.

Abstaining does not take energy. Far from it, it would take a tremendous act of will to consume an animal. Abstaining is the easiest thing in the world. When you have fully processed and accepted the harm and suffering it causes, it's like saying it's hard to walk around all day not murdering people. It's fucking easy!

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Abstaining doesn't take energy. Quitting does, but it's a very temporary energy demand. Non smokers don't have to constantly ward off the temptation of a cigarette in the same way someone trying to quit does. It's the same for meat (and it's not even physically addictive, maybe weakly psychologically adductive but people already considering ethics should be able to overcome it very quickly). Once anything becomes habit, the unconscious part of your brain takes over most of the work of the conscious parts. If you're pouring so much energy into work that you can't even start the process, I get that, but that doesn't apply to the majority of Westerners, and certainly not white collar office workers.

Also, the feeling of doing a good thing, no matter how small, should be motivation in itself to spend energy. If I'm tired after work but still put in the effort to make a positive impact, I'm now both more tired but more happy, and being more happy lets me sleep better.

Also, this is just a tangent, I'm not diagnosed as autistic but I strongly suspect I am for a lot of reasons, is the above basically what you mean by "autistic" sense of justice? I would really hope that's an everyone thing.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

Non smokers don’t have to constantly ward off the temptation of a cigarette in the same way someone trying to quit does. It’s the same for meat

Not that it's relevant to your analogy, but unlike veganism, an ex-smoker has to be constantly vigilant, because you never overcome the addiction. It's always latent, waiting for a chance to leap back to full strength in a moment of weakness.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's very common for some autistic people to have a stronger emotional reaction to seeing people do something known to be "wrong" or harmful (like litter, or a dog off leash, or just leaving the milk out or misspelling a word). I don't think this is genuinely an enhanced sense of justice because I don't think that would be an emotional response, but that's quibbling.

[–] Kajika@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I do not agree with how this article is arguing, nor the site the author chose to post in.

I can read comments on how it matters to the victims , that is way more powerful and real of an argument than "any changes come from individuals".

If you want to think veganism as a group, thus politically, I would rather have people thinking materialism and something like "praxis" (from Marx for the ones who don't know). As a group and/or as activists we have to act accordingly to our thoughts. And this would also lead to our thoughts evolving in regards of our experience from our action (cf dialectic).

I guess there are many different ways of thinking in vegans groups depending on which countries they come from.

[–] Linktank@lemmy.today 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

If you want to make the world a better place, there is no better choice than choosing not to have children.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago

I get the point and I also advocate against human reproduction -- though for the benefit of the child, not for the benefit of the world. But as an intervention it kind of suggests that we should also be monitoring for when our own suicide benefits the world. Fuck the world. That's never been my motivation. Going vegan doesn't really affect the world. It affects the victims.

[+] Starski@lemmy.zip -2 points 4 days ago

[removed by mod]

[+] n3m37h@sh.itjust.works -13 points 4 days ago (4 children)

As long as billionares are destroying the atmosphere, it wont matter

[–] Shailu45@lemmy.world 19 points 4 days ago

It always matters for the victims.

[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

"As long as rapists exist, my personal sexual conduct doesn't matter."

CONDUCT FUCKING MATTERS. Whether or not you can personally solve the planet's problems, WHAT YOU DO MATTERS.

Ban looks good on you.

[–] Four_mile_circus@lemmy.ml 13 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Weird you post this criticism to attack veganism. Food is one of the most decentralized aspects of life. You're not wrong that a member of the billionaire caste can pump out ten thousand times more CO2 than you, but it can't actually, physically, eat more animals than you.

Your impact on the lives of animals is the same as Elon Musk's. The stomach is the great equalizer.

[–] n3m37h@sh.itjust.works -1 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Well vegans cant eat the rich...

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 days ago

Veganism is all about harm reduction

[–] balsoft@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 days ago

The killing is counterproductive; labour at minimum wage until they repay everything they stole sounds like a better use of resources

[–] november@piefed.blahaj.zone 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)

So it's okay if I punch you because it doesn't matter as long as billionaires are destroying the world?