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70
Top German official: wealth tax would harm the economy | dpa international (dpa-international.com)
submitted 2 weeks ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org
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[–] einkorn@feddit.org 60 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Yes, yes. Higher taxes are the death sentence for every economy. /s

Strangely enough we had our "Wirtschaftswunder" when especially the wealth tax was way higher.

The death of "the economy" was also foretold when minimum wage was introduced and everytime it was raised, but as the good Dr. Malcolm said: ~~Life~~ the economy finds a way.

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

when especially the wealth tax was way higher

Or when we had one at all. Getting rid of it was a betrayal to the people and really cemented the overall stagnation of our economy. It's of course no surprise to the average Lemmy user that the opposite of what right wing conservatives say is true. These "christian" "democrats" have it all backwards as usual.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Technically, we still have a wealth tax. However, because the current implementation has been ruled as unconstitutional, it is not being collected.

[–] ctenidium@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I think it's not even unconstitutional - they have chosen not to enforce it because "it's ToO DiFfIcUlT To cAlCuLaTe and To eVaLuAtE" the correct wealth and an according tax share.

[–] ctenidium@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Offiziell wurde die Vermögenssteuer 1997 nicht abgeschafft, sondern nur "ausgesetzt". Hintergrund war eine Entscheidung aus Karlsruhe von 1995: Damals kritisierte das Bundesverfassungsgericht, die Besitzer von Immobilien würden zu wenig Steuern zahlen. Das Vermögenssteuergesetz müsse überarbeitet werden, so die Richter. Daraufhin argumentierte die damalige Bundesregierung von CDU/CSU und FDP, eine Gesetzesreform sei viel zu kompliziert.

Deshalb wurde die Vermögenssteuer nicht überarbeitet - sondern komplett ausgesetzt.

ZDFheute

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

For extra absurdity:

If i remember correctly the issue with the estimation of the value of houses and land was, that it was done based on 1918 and 1930 or so baseline values that then were adjusted over the years, but the underlying structure, which areas are expensive, which are cheap, what infrastructure is available... was never changed.

So because of systematically undervaluing property to benefit rich people, the wealth tax was stopped because the court found that it is unjust by undervaluing property.

Germany is a Banana Republic which affords more professors to devise ways in which to claim the contrary.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

No, that's the stated reason for not passing an updated tax law.

The current state of the tax was ruled unconstitutional in 1995 and subsequently the tax hasn't been collected since 1997 (No English translation available).

[–] ctenidium@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I perceive it like not the wealth tax per se is unconstitutional. But it is not following the "Gleichheitsgrundsatz" But you may be right after all.

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

That's exactly what I said:

[...] the current implementation has been ruled as unconstitutional [...]

A wealth tax is even required as per §104 (2) GG.

[–] ctenidium@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

OK, I beg your pardon then. I misunderstood your point.

[–] ctenidium@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

If you think that I'm wrong, I'm happy to learn why.

[–] Buffalox@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

From USA we have very clear indicators that lower taxes hurt the economy more.
When Bush reduced taxes the economy went down, When Obama increased them the economy went up, when Trump reduced them the economy went down, when Biden increased them the economy recovered. Now Trump has reduced taxes with an insane amount, and USA is on their way to recession!

There probably is some sort of ideal balance, but what that is we don't really know. For now it seems that higher taxes generally are better for the economy. Just look at Denmark, often claimed to have the highest taxes of the world, and their economy has been absolutely stellar for decades.

Even as one of the hardest hit by COVID early on, they spend massive resources curbing both the spread and economic effects of COVID, money covered almost entirely by taxes, and they came out basically on top of everybody else at the other end!

Taxes spend on improving conditions for the population, actually help the economy!

[–] einkorn@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

Taxes spend on improving conditions for the population, actually help the economy!

It seems like one of those things which should be obvious. Why are we doing this whole "economy" thing? Because people want stuff. But if people can't buy stuff there is no reason to keep producing.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

The "Wirtschaftswunder" mostly happened, because the Americans saved Germany from starvation after WW2, German industry was hardly damaged during the war(but the transport system was, but that got repaired) and then because of the common market and lack of USD, which made Europeans buy German rather then American.

It was pretty much bound to happen and the only thing Germany did right, was the EU part. The rest was mainly bad managed horribly and German workers were and still are underpaid. Hence you see the massive net exports out of Germany.

[–] kossa@feddit.org 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Well, for something like the Wirtschaftswunder, it is really hard to pinpoint a single "reason", but arguably the Lastenausgleichsgesetz played a huge role. It was a massive redistribution of wealth (nowadays shunned as a so-called "social benefit program", funnily enough it was specifically to subsidize refugees). With that, a wealth tax and crazy high income tax and higher business taxation, the government spending ratio went through the roof. Add to that, that poor people (read: the refugees from the Eastern areas) could (and needed to, as they lost everything) consume a lot more, et voila, Wirtschaftswunder. Easy recipe, which could just be repeated today. When the wealth would be moving again, the economy would explode again. But, alas, the majority does not have the money to consume, and the wealthy hoard the wealth instead of consuming. If we only could change that somehow.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 2 points 2 weeks ago

In West Germany there never was an actually working redistribution of wealth after WW2. The rich families of the Nazi Germany kept their wealth and still have it today. Yes taxes were higher for them, but not even close to high enough. The Lastenausgleichsgesetz really did hit the middle class, who owned property. It did not hit the real capitalist class.

[–] Wrufieotnak@feddit.org 48 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Never did the tweet with "replace economy with rich peoples yacht money" ring more true than this assholes opinion:

[–] hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

But it would mainly hit medium-sized companies, he said.

Unsubstantiated claim. Why would putting a tax on wealth of billionaires affect mid-sized companies? And why do we tax income but not wealth? (Eigentum verpflichtet.) And is 26% much for a billionaire if middle class pays 43% and it's up to 47.5%? And I know the usual tricks of the richest people on earth regularly lead to Jeff Bezos for example paying zero taxes unless it's a year he sells some shares. Though that's not Germany. But at least their companies should pay taxes here for their business. And is CDU really unable to think of some way to handle this? I bet it's as easy as making those statistics.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 7 points 2 weeks ago

According to German law a medium sized companies for fills at least two out of the three criteria of having a turn over of 50million+, 25million+ in equity or more then 250 employees on average over a year. It is a common trick, to fool people into thinking that they are middle class or your local restaurant, craftsmen, architects, small stores and so forth.

Any decent wealth tax 100% should hit medium-sized businesses. Owning such a company puts your net worth in the 10s of millions.

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Why would putting a tax on wealth of billionaires affect mid-sized companies?

We both know it wouldn't and he is lying through his teeth here to appear as someone who represents smaller businesses because he knows that's supposed to be his party's target voter. These corrupt fuckers make everyone poorer but themselves.

[–] littleomid@feddit.org 27 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Who is this economy exactly? Is he in the room with us?

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago

The Economy™ of current day understanding consists of the wallets of the ultra rich, more exactly, of their contents.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 2 weeks ago

Just a word of warning: Merz is an asshole and has proven that he is an enemy of the people repeatedly. He should be removed from politics in general.

[–] latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 2 weeks ago

WHAT?! Dude, get that fucking boot out of your mouth and speak clearly!

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Rich guy known to take from the lesser fortunate and give it to the overly rich opposes wealth tax? No way!

This is the type of filthy leech that really hurt our economy and our democracy.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago

In principle, every country should have balanced trade relations to other countries, and that is the only thing that matters when discussing big economic policies. Internally, countries can organize however they want. If they tax their rich and give the money to the poor, that is a purely internal decision and cannot be criticized from the outside as long as it does not reduce the exports from germany or increase the imports to germany. The import/export balance is what matters.

The worry is that if money is given to the poor, they will spend it on consumer products (from other countries, like smartphones from south korea), and the wealth will leave the country. In my opinion, regulating imports and exports is better done through import tariffs and/or export subsidies, instead of leaving everything to the free market. The free market tends to instabilities, as observed through the children's game "monopoly", where those that already have a lot gather even more, and that's a fundamental instability. Tariffs and subsidies have the chance to undo these instabilities and therefore make the global economic system sustainable. They should be implemented.