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Even beyond the smash hits, 2023 was one of the best years ever for RPGs (www.pcgamer.com)

submitted 8 months ago by nanoUFO@sh.itjust.works to c/games@sh.itjust.works

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[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago

While there are a ton of articles like this, most of which are low-effort, click-bait garbage, this at least makes a more compelling case by limitting it to RPGs. Maybe I'm just uninformed since I don't generally like RPGs, but it seems like there have been a lot more quality RPGs released this year (esspecially in the "double A" budget class), and the two triple A releases both actually felt like a notable step forward (BG3 in design and content, Starfield in tech).

[-] Mako_Bunny@lemmy.blahaj.zone 28 points 8 months ago

Starfield did nothing to advance tech

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 11 points 8 months ago

It begs the question, did anyone at Bethesda see No Man's Sky?

[-] Flag@kbin.social 20 points 8 months ago

Uh how did starfield advance techn in a big way? Pls do elaborate on that one, cause i didnt see it

[+] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works -11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

More just that Bethesda is the biggest maker of Triple A RPGs and they're finally updating the creation engine in a significant way. That said, to my knowledge, its still one of the more technically advanced RPGs (even if it doesn't do much with that tech) and could hopefully at least work as a proof of concept to more ambitious developers.

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 8 months ago

its still one of the more technically advanced RPGs

so technologically advanced it didn't have DSLR until a month in

Sorry, but Starfield is built on the spit and glue that is creation engine and it shows painfully

[-] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 months ago

DSLR

So basically, priority on gloss and glitter filters and complaining about it because they implemented it, just too late.

This ... is where you place your criteria ... out of the mountain of issues you could have brought out ...

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago

It's a simple basic feature of modern games that's easy to point out to the layman as a blatantly missing on launch feature

Not every argument requires avoiding the low hanging fruit

[-] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 0 points 8 months ago

So Lethal Company doesn't have it so it sucks? Bad logic is bad, in doesn't even need to be a feature for half the games listed in the PC Gamer article this post is about ... But you do your "basic features".

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works -4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

My point wasn't that it was well made. It was that Bethesda is at least trying to update and expand their tech far beyond what they've been willing to commit to in the past. Compare the difference between their older games vs Fallout 76 vs Starfield. A lot more is clearly re-written and updated rather than just tacked on unlike their previous "updates". The widespread use of procedural level generation, for example - something that wouldn't have been possible before regardless of the amount of duct tape. To my knowledge, no one else is currently putting that much effort into trying new mechanics and tech in RPGs, and certainly not with a triple A budget. I guess you have something like Mount and Blade: Bannerlord, which is using their tech improvements to significantly increase scale and complexity of their battles, but thats a very different type of game, and I can't think of anything else that is using newer tech to add to gameplay.

[-] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 months ago

I can't think of anything else that is using newer tech to add to gameplay

Oh you're trolling, gotcha

[-] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 1 points 8 months ago

Maybe I’m just uninformed since I don’t generally like RPGs

Or maybe you are just toxic, given that he made it quite clear where he was parting from in his original comment.

[-] PlzGivHugs@sh.itjust.works 0 points 8 months ago

Well, give me an example then. I acknowledge I don't play many RPGs, so maybe I am missing something obvious, but I have seen almost no innovation in big RPGs esspecially when it comes to integrating it with gameplay. All the examples that come to mind are more at the edge of what is considered part of the genre, like Mount and Blade, or RDR2.

[-] Blamemeta@lemm.ee -3 points 8 months ago

Creation Engine is a great engine for Bethesda style games, no doubt about that. But it is not a particularly innovative engine. The main innovation was just how moddable it was. It's basically a pretty SQL database, with the formids being primary keys. (Have you ever screwed with xEdit? It's so easy to mod!)

BUT that being said, widespread use of procgen was in Dagger Fall. Aside from a few key dungeons, everything was procedurally generated, and that was in 1996. Hell, I'd venture that it had better procgen, because they had roads. And before that, Rogue was procedurally generated. Procgen just isn't an innovation.

[-] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 4 points 8 months ago

Their engine is getting better, but unfortunately, it still suffers from the lack of proper cinematics (zooming into faces isn't it) and it makes things like the lack of proper procedural generation make it seem more lackluster. Even Daggerfall did it better, and even if Starfield could approach it, Daggerfall also had the benefit of a lower quality threshold, which makes it even harder to make procedural environments seem more unique.

I actually enjoy Starfield and will eventually go back to play it like any other Bethesda game, but I sort of feel that Starfield makes it obvious that without some major change, like implementing truly in-depth AI generated levels to cope with the demand of the scale they want to go for, they will still fall short of expectations using the same technology for their next Elder Scrolls. They basically have to combine Daggerfall procedural generation with Creation Engine focus on tailored content and create the next evolution of both.

But considering that Starfield is the Arena of its universe, not bad.

[-] AMillionNames@sh.itjust.works 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It really doesn't feel like it. It's just been really good for Baldur's Gate 3. But the article is really focusing on the retro-style RPGs and PC re-releases that have been making the rounds. Here's the whole list.

Baldur's Gate 3
Phantom Liberty
Octopath Traveller 2
Star Ocean Second Story R
Live A Live
Lunacid
Loop8
Persona 5 Tactica
Disgaea 7
Sea of Stars
Etrian Odyssey
Trails to Azure
Rhapsody 2 and 3
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord
Wizardry: The Five Ordeals

Damn, so yeah, not really that click-baity.

[-] Sanctus@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I liked the year a lot. Quite satiated on that RPG scratch except for one item on the list. KOTOR is strangely absent from this time of great RPGs.

[-] Ketram@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 months ago

Of the games I played that came out this year, I would only classify BG3 and Rogue Trader as RPGs. I have a LOT of issues with the roleplay in BG3 (though I love it). I don't feel like JRPGs that have little to no roleplaying aspect whatsoever should count within Role-Playing-Games, since I think some facilitation of roleplay should be provided. BG3's class/race reactivity or Rogue Trader's Dogmatic/Iconoclast/Heretic convictions fit this very well.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Well, that's certainly one of the takes of all time.

[-] Poop@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

Clearly this person didn't actually play Sea of Stars. What's next, Secret of Mana isn't an RPG? A take of sorts!

[-] Ketram@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 months ago

Sorry for the bad take! I didn't play many JRPGs or JRPG inspired games this year, as I usually find those more story led and have less room for roleplay. Does sea of stars actually have much roleplay? Or is it mostly combat/ability focused choice-making?

[-] Poop@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

It's ok, rereading your comment I see what you mean more about the roleplay aspect not being there. You aren't wrong... I'd say the roleplaying in these style of games is mostly in which characters you use the most.

"Role playing games" is a pretty broad reaching term with many aspects. Some are just lighter on the choices or character customization is all. These games are more about the story and level/skill progression.

Sea of Stars definitely fits that mold you are talking about, not a ton of roleplaying in the making choices sense. It is a great game though, I'd say it's my favorite of the year.

[-] Ketram@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 8 months ago

Makes sense! Yeah I have kind of slowed my roll on things that are JRPG or JRPG adjacent, probably from less time to play stuff mostly. I keep hearing how awesome Sea of Stars is though!

this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023

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