this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
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Unpopular Opinion

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I'm a long time Lemmy lurker and occasional Redditor. Since the Reddit influx, I've watched the frequency of shitty Reddit-type behavior, e.g., combative comments, trolling, and unnecessary rudeness, just sky rocket.

I'm happy to have more content on Lemmy, but I wish the bad actors and assholes would have stayed on Reddit.

Yes, I realize the irony of posting this on a new community that's basically a Reddit transplant.

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[–] Rabbithole@kbin.social 3 points 2 years ago (4 children)

I came over in the reddit migration.

I have to admit, the thought definitely occurred to me when I first joined and had a look around, that the people that were already here before would be getting swarmed by masses of redditors that may well not have the same "site-culture" as the people who were here first. I'm actually surprised that this is the first post that I've seen complaining about it.

I mean it, I was legitimately expecting a ton of pushback from the existing fedi community over this, and was really surprised when it never seemed to materialize.

For my own experiences of being here (I'm on kbin), this place has been really good-natured, with a better level of well intentioned discussion than what a lot of reddit had, so it's been a really nice experience so far. What I don't have though, is any experience of what it was like before we all invaded en-mass, so I have nothing to contrast it with. I can totally see how someone wouldn't be happy with what's happened though, the migration has to have changed the space a lot for everyone that was here before.

One thing about my personal experience of how it is here though is that when I first joined I tried to do the thing that you first do with a reddit account, you know, where you immediately un-subscribe from all default subreddits and only join things you're actually interested in (so, niche subs, etc). Found out that it isn't quite how it works, but that the subscribed feed is pretty much exactly that but baked-in as standard. I've then spent almost my whole time on the subscribed feed since (unless actively looking for new stuff).

So the quality that I've experienced here is probably more down to my personal selection of subscribed communities rather than a more holistic view of the platform as a whole. There's the caveat to everything I just said, I guess.

So yeah, I'm kinda sorry that this happened to you, and I'd also prefer if those people (I'm referring to the bad-actors and arsehole's side of things) would have just stayed where they were too, but I'm not sure what to do about it other than just blocking/unsubscribing to the communities in question, or blocking the individual accounts of bad actors. I doubt that the second is even remotely scalable though if the userbase gets significantly larger.

[–] yokonzo@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

"I mean it, I was legitimately expecting a ton of pushback from the existing fedi community over this, and was really surprised when it never seemed to materialize."

I mean I joined pretty early, I think beehaw was topping the charts with 400, (4k?) Users. I'm pretty sure the complaints did happen but we're pretty immediately drowned out

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[–] IZanderI@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)
[–] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

You forgot the /s.

[–] graphite@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Reddit -> Lemmy transplants are circlejerking about how evil Spez is, how Reddit is "doomed", or how much they hate people like Musk.

[–] SoleInvictus@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

Oh my God, yes. It's like hanging out with thousands of recent divorcees. They just. Won't. Shut up.

It'll be interesting to see how this progresses but I'm hoping the asshole fraction gets bored and leaves. We've always had assholes and trolls but not like this. I've been just calling the assholes on their shit, hopefully it helps drive them out.

[–] time_example@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago (5 children)

Seeing the low-quality comments starting to appear is disappointing.

[–] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Always downvote all bad content - that's why the arrow exists.

[–] GlitchSir@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Sometimes you want to support a post or comment but have nothing to say. Comments increase engagement scores on most platforms

[–] pragma@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

In my experience the only ones caring about engagement scores are advertisers. If you agree with a post/comment you don't actually have to press any button (upvote, like, heart, etc) or even reply to it. We've been conditioned to do it because they have found a way to profit off of our "uh huh" and "yeah that's right". I'm not suggesting it's all bad, I'm trying to put it into context.

[–] GlitchSir@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

Sure and it might not be a thing here in Lemmy but there’s a lot of users conditioned to behave this way

[–] iNeedScissors67@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

I came across one earlier that was about as low quality as it gets. It was a thread about some big car accident and the only reply was "/c/fuckcars". No commentary on the actual article, no attempt at starting any actual discussion, just a pithy one liner that serves no purpose other than grabbing some upvotes and killing any chance of discussion. I still haven't seen TOO much of that yet but I find it weird that someone would make the effort to come to the fedi just to do the same low effort shit they were doing on Reddit. It's disappointing but at the same time, my short time on the fedi has been filled with far more actual conversation than most of my time on Reddit was.

[–] pragma@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think this is a symptom of having a scoring system for comments. If you gamify your social interactions, people will try to play the game (meaning low quality comments, dad jokes, or anything that will grant them easy votes) instead of having actual discourse.

[–] OpenStars@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

That ignores the effect of bad actors who will do it regardless though. There may actually be something to using such a score, at least as a qualitative if not quantitative measurement of trustworthiness, like for anyone with a magazine-specific karma score in the negative and spread out over at least ten comments, start hiding their comments by default (like still visible but you have to click to expand now), and allow the mods to decide what their communities rules will be.

Irl it's like: punch me in the face once, twice, three times, and eventually ten times, and maybe one day I'll finally start to think about considering making a plan of action to help you realize that there may be consequences... one day! (maybe) That could help so that if a troll is popular in one place but always shits outside of where they live, those receiving the raw end of that deal could have a way to automatically deal with it?

On second thought though, it's probably too easily gamified, especially by alts created for explicitly that purpose, like it's not that hard to make 10 accounts. But aside from minor UI concerns, something like that could actually change whether/how often someone feels welcomed to go visit a site.

[–] schrodingers_dinger@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Omg this!

/s

I haven't noticed it too much but I feel like everyone is so used to how Reddit was that it would take some work and a collective agreement between users on the fediverse to shun the low quality comments.

I do remeber that somewhat working on Reddit for a while, but yeah once it became big enough there was no stopping the shitty comments.

[–] time_example@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

It sounds terrible but I hope the ux doesn’t improve, as it acts as a barrier to entry to a lot of the shit-tier Reddit users.

[–] Rabbithole@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

If you want to stop more people coming, just go and tell people on Reddit to come here.

The trick though is that when you do, give them url's for both Lemmy and Kbin. From what I saw, doing that somehow made understanding this place so difficult that 95% of people would just start shouting abuse at whoever did it and refuse to ever entertain the idea of switching. :p

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[–] aerir@lemmy.aerir.xyz 1 points 2 years ago

That is expected isn't it? Both sites are driven by people, and people can be an assholes. Doubt we can do too much to drive them out.

[–] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

The best thing about decentralized networks is that you can just go to another instance if you feel like this. You're not forced to interact with any communities that you're not a fan of. Things change with time, of course, but that doesn't mean you have to change your tastes.

[–] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I’ve definitely noticed things change a LOT in my 5 or 6 weeks here.

IMHO, instances like BeeHaw still have that old vibe. Less shit posting, less zinger comments, more people having reasonable conversations about things.

My guess is that we’ll end up having a split between instances like that, and instances that are basically trying to be fedi Reddit.

[–] trouser_mouse@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

If only we could all live side-by-side in harmony.

[–] joolez@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

It's not reddit's people in my mind. It's how the society is structured in general. The fediverse gets slowly adopted by more and more people so it's natural that there is a annoying group of idiots.

I think they are always everywhere in a percentage. So the bigger the group the more Idiots.

It's possible that this percentage is increasing to be fair.

And yes, I'm a disgusting reddit refugee.

[–] LillianVS@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

This is something we as mods for communities can combat. It's a rule I enforce across my communities, posters who engage in hostility and attack people have their comments removed. Simple as.

People can discuss things, that's fine but the second conversations devolve into personal attacks that is not okay.

We have the power to decide how we want the communities we have to grow and what behaviour we want to discourage. Sometimes people just need a little push in the right direction.

We can also all do our parts without mod intervention by being just decent and not engaging in the same toxic behaviour. You can also report comments to mods. It really helps us out to get reports in for comments/posts that break the rule as we may not always see it due to our instances etc...

[–] TechieDamien@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 years ago

I disagree. I was here before the migration and I really wanted to like it. However, there simply wasnt enough content and most threads were barren. Now, there are full deep discussions everywhere about loads of different topics. I've come back to a far better product than I previously experienced, despite a few more bad actors.

[–] trouser_mouse@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago

The Beauty of the Fediverse™

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

The thing with the combative comments/rudeness, in my experience, mostly looks like someone being direct and then a bunch of readers being offended by the bluntness. Whether it was on Reddit, here, or forums and Usenet back in the day. So many problems with "tone" in text is caused simply by the reader reading it in a combative tone that the writer never intended.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Add to that a large part of the Internet (Americans I can only presume) are the biggest moral prudes around.

Like they’ll see someone say fuck in a conversation and be like “guys that’s totally uncalled for, let’s be civil here” when really it’s just a bit of fucking emphasis behind a word and causal as fuck.

[–] DrNeurohax@kbin.social 1 points 2 years ago

Non-prude American here. My hypothesis is that younger-ish folks are raised paranoid of their every word being recorded and played back to their parents. There's a weird tone to the under 25s that feels like every word had to go through legal.

Perfect example: Oh my gosh!

Who the fuck says, "Gosh?" I think I might have heard 1 grandparent say it back in the early 90s. It's, "Oh my god!" There's punctuation to the word. Gosh sounds like you're trying to whisper so your clergy doesn't hear you being naughty.

So, yeah, we hate those fucking cunts, too.

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[–] BananaTrifleViolin@kbin.social 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Unfortunately I think this just reflects human nature. The more people you have the more people you have at the fringes who are aggressive, or trolling or even just selfish or insensitive.

Also it's easy to come across rude when posting in text - anyone who works with colleagues via email will find the same problem of one meaning being intended but a different meanong (such as tone) being read by the recipient.

When you have a small community your names become familiar and there is something personal about the interactions. Once the you have a huge community people become anonymous and that allows bad behaviour to flourish. I barely ever saw a name twice on reddit and that's happening here too. I got to the point on reddit where I'd post a comment but I wouldn't ever read the replies as I was fed up with dealing with the negativity.

My hope for the fediverse is that there will be multiple versions of the same communities so that we can have closer knit versions of communities as alternatives to the 1m+ chaotic versions. Small communities are where you can achieve decency and kindness more consistently.

[–] Laete@lemmy.world 1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Also I assume that unfriendly behavior, and atmosphere it creates, discourage unaggressive or less typical posters from participating in conversations. So those insensitive people will end up being overpresented in the comment section.

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