this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2024

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1012

Talking to normies about privacy: (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 year ago by shimdidly@lemmy.world to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world

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[–] tory@lemmy.world 161 points 1 year ago (34 children)

Using the term "normies" paints you as having a superiority complex, which isn't the best look.

[–] Gigan@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago

Everyone is a normie for some things

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 57 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I appreciate you calling out the use of the term "normie". Communities that frequently use such terms always end up with an unhealthy "us vs them" mentality.

Like I'm not surprised people don't react well to someone bringing up privacy issues if said person starts the conversation with the mentality of "how do I enlighten this normie?"

[–] Restaldt@lemm.ee 28 points 1 year ago

How do I reeeach theese Normies

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[–] alyth@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Really? I just interpreted the use of normie here as "layperson" or "average user" and thought it was completely harmless.

[–] tory@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Have someone refer to you as a normie and lmk if it feels neutral or derogatory.

[–] alyth@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I can't imagine normies getting worked up over what some internet nerd calls them

[–] tory@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's neither here nor there and sidesteps the point. Also, depending on how you define normies and nerds, it's a bit silly. You can't imagine a random person being worked up by being called names online. I mean, okay, if you say so.

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[–] rovingnothing29@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

https://files.catbox.moe/0rq290.mp4

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[+] HouseWolf@lemm.ee 131 points 1 year ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (9 children)

[deleted]

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 50 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Everyone says this kind of stuff about any and every social issue. It drives me insane, do people not realize that it's a self-fulfilling prophecy? If everyone I heard say "there's no point fighting it" got together and fought it, they'd easily win.

[–] lemmeee@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I see this a lot in discussions about climate change lately: country X is polluting just as much or more than us so we shouldn't do anything. This argument makes no sense.

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[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There is a 3rd argument which I think is a bit more valid in "I value the service I receive in exchange for my personal data"

Using the internet without an adblocker, noscript, and whatever else is really nasty. But even if you aren't on these platforms, marketers are still building profiles on you. Honestly we need data privacy legislation and some real talk about marketing and the costs of using the internet as a society.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That argument pisses me off.

“I don’t mind so fuck you.”

If you want to use those services, that’s your business. But I don’t use those services; they still keep my data.

[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But I don’t use those services; they still keep my data.

Exactly why we need data privacy laws. Sadly there are "profiles" out there for all of us, whether you chose to be tracked or not. Personally I think that any kind of sharing of personal data with marketers should be illegal nor should it be legal for any entity to purchase personal data without a signed consent form from the person in question.

That'd probably end "free" services and our credit score system in the United States but honestly that kind of data collection is equivalent to stalking and unethical.

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[–] lemmeee@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

It's funny, because people who defend DRM also use this argument. They are happy with the service, so they don't mind losing freedom. They can't understand that they could have both.

[–] meep_launcher@lemm.ee 18 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Maybe you can help me out.

I see lots of folks here who are programmers or have a ton of knowledge on ways to get around the big 5 to maintain privacy, but as a layman with only so much time in the day, it's hard to avoid taking the path of least resistance when using the Internet.

I am a musician with a public profile on Instagram, and many of my friends who are also artists use TikTok or YouTube to get their exposure. It's kind of a necessity if you want to simply book a gig at a venue (they will ask for your social media handles to see how many followers you have to determine if it's even worth having you on).

As artists we are also not flush with cash to pay for all the privacy software or VPNs. On top of that, so much of our information is already out there, I'm not sure how we'd even start reeling it back in.

[–] lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

you don't have to go all in at once, mate. you can start by getting most important things in your control: your browser and search engine.
if you like the interface of Google chrome and can't part away with it: use brave. else highly recommended to use Firefox.
if you just like Google search results, use startpage, else use duckduckgo or brave search.

these two things alone would make a meaningful difference.

then for neutering most of third party tracking: use a private DNS(I'd suggest nextdns). it's just a "add a URL and forget about it'. it'll stop the tracking significantly.

then you can continue by replacing other inconsequential stuff like Google notes(use Joplin), Google assistant(don't use any of this "smart" crap), Google fit(just exercise regularly. you don't need to micromanage it).

then next step would be to start making some tough decisions: replace the keylogger that is Google keyboard with it's open source equivalent heliboard.

then eventually you can go hardcore and use Facebook and other crap on browser only.

so, all in all, even if you do only the first two(or just first) step, you're already 50% there.

let me know in case you got any questions. and happy journey.

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[–] AVengefulAxolotl@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah, like people say 'I already use windows/google search/whatever, so it does not matter if i switch email provider/ whatever'.

What?? I so hate this mentality: 'If you cant eliminate / change it fully, then why bother?' Bruh, small steps can go such a long way man...

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[–] markon@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'll never give up. I'll shove my 256-bit AES encrypted USB stick so far up the glowy asses they start vomiting shit and USB drives. I still use YouTube and shit tho. I try and convert people. I've been successful getting quite a few people on Signal. The problem is that if there isn't interoperability and everyone's friends aren't on it some forget to even check the app or don't get notifications. If you leave message contents in notifications you're fucked anyway. Lol I feel their pain, but I wish I could get people to care before bad things happen. I mean, bad things have happened. We just gotta keep it up.

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[–] d_k_bo@feddit.de 98 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I recently got a confused look when I said that I pay for my email provider (3€/mo, but 1€/mo would also work).

Many people don't realize that operating an email server creates cost and they pay with letting Google/Yahoo/… read and analyze their communication.

[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"But my mails are here in the browser!"

"All the spam is annoying! Can you do something about it?"

[–] AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I operate my own email, as the network gods intended

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[–] recarsion@discuss.tchncs.de 96 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

"But why would they care about MY data, I don't do anything special"

Anyone outside of tech when I even passingly mention privacy

[+] AmosBurton@lemmy.world 65 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

[deleted]

[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Do YOU have anything to hide??

“Yea my bank information, passwords, personal identity, identity of all my loved ones. But hey, if you hate having security and love being blackmailed and hate everyone who you have ever made contact in your life and wish to make their life hell then you do you and stay far the fuck away from me. We don’t know each other and we never will”

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[–] ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (10 children)

What's the counter to that sentence then?

Every time I try to explain why this is a dumb sentence using the door lock analogy I always get rebuffed by it.

[–] MoonRaven@feddit.nl 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have kids? Where do they go to school? What time are they off? When did you last go to the doctor? What medication do you use? Etc. Etc.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 12 points 1 year ago

"Do you have a shredder? Do you keep your payment information in an exposed location. If you found out a company leaked your credit card data, your phone number, everything you'd ever said to your therapist, how would you feel?"

[–] IdleSheep@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

First, when you get into these arguments, always start from the viewpoint that these people do not see any worth in their data. Their convenience is worth way more than any privacy breach. That's why your goal is usually to convince them that privacy breaches can be a huge innconvenience for them, use their selfishness to advocate for their self-interest.

Quick example, what defines something that needs to be hidden changes constantly with different governments and regulatory bodies. There's no telling if your current data won't be illegal or something in the future, causing you problems. That's why it's important to have protections for your data to begin with so a future government can't just unilaterally decide to trample all over your rights.

Basically, see what they care about and try advocating from that viewpoint, not your personal viewpoint. There's a good chance you'll have a line of argument.

I find that I have more success convincing people if I put their self-interest first and foremost instead of trying to explain some grand ideology. People want something tangible, not a hazy ideal. It's only when something affects them that they may change their views.

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[–] recarsion@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 year ago

"But it's so convenient" is a close second

[–] SevenOfWine@startrek.website 12 points 1 year ago

I actually enjoy that sentence, because you can ask them for the pin code of their bank card.

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[–] cumskin_genocide@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

It's not only online privacy. Every fucking major intersection in the city has cameras. There are no public places where there isn't a security camera watching. I can't even go to Wendy's without a camera watching me eat.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 60 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I think the funniest part of this meme is every company bar Amazon, Discord (both not in market yet), and TikTok (Chinese) were confirmed to be a part of NSA's PRISM

[–] lseif@sopuli.xyz 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

graphic design is the NSA's passion

[–] nexussapphire@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Do they have an opening? That looks about my skill level of web design.

[–] CbtB@lemmynsfw.com 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Severely lacking in car company logos.

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[–] player2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Stupid question: What exactly are the dangers being implied here? I have accounts with all of these services although I don't use all of them. I know that they are using and selling my personal information, is there more? I have ways of doing things in private when I need and I'm aware that using these services has no expectations of absolute privacy.

[–] shimdidly@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Privacy = freedom. If you don't have privacy, or to the extent you don't have privacy, you are in proportion not free.

It seems to me this is the trade off we are all figuring out how to make. For example, I've considered not having a cell phone at all, but then I find it almost impossible to get a job, or operate in the economy. So I use a custom privacy ROM. I have no illusions that this is perfect, but at least a step in the right direction.

I think the most practical answer is to gain knowledge of the situation, and limit our attack surface. I don't think there's any silver bullets, unless you want to live like the Amish (which, doesn't sound like a bad idea, either. If that's what you want and you can do it, go for it.)

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