The problem I often run into is, what IS a protest that isn't disruptive that DOES get your attention? Constant bashing of anyone who disturbs the status quo because you should "only target the people directly causing the issue", but they've made so many layers between them and us that the only people who can be appealed to is your fellow every day man. And he's too busy being frustrated about not driving fast enough on the road to get to the next place he's being fucked that the only thing he considers about your message is that it inconvenienced him.

So, what are good non-disruptive ways that get your attention and cause some form of action within the population? It can't just be non-disruptive, people have to engage with the concept and learn/question something about their every day life from it or else it's ineffective and people should just keep gluing themselves to things because at least that gets your attention.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago (2 children)

The strike for climate change protest was a genuinely impressive sight to see, enough people to fill a street, and they just kept coming. They also completely filled Parliament grounds.

So, if you genuinely want to make an impact? Get tens of thousands of people to protest.

[–] biddy@feddit.nl 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

One of those "thousands of people protests" was literally canceled because the council didn't want to provide traffic management. For the protests that did happen, people were squeezed into as small space as possible and quickly moved out the way, so as to not waste the time of the climate destroying cars we were protesting. It was pathetic. But the status quo is going to protect the status quo.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They can't have cared that much about the cause, in that case.

[–] biddy@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I totally agree. The whole point of a protest is to protest the government, letting yourself be repressed by their rules defeats that point. That's why disobedient protests like RPR are necessary.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

So protest the government, not people trying to get to work.

[–] biddy@feddit.nl 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They're protesting in Wellington, so many of the "poor normal people trying to get to work" do work in the government. Protests are inconvenient, that's the point.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

No, protests are supposed to get public support for a cause.

[–] Turun@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

How often do tens of thousands participate in a protest though? We had mass protests. This is just a reminder that politicians really need to do more.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

I mean, that's kinda my point. It's easy to ignore a handful of nutters, less so a crowd of tens of thousands.

[–] cloventt@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

I agree 100%.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I wish they'd glue themselves to politicians instead of roads. It's not the roads who decide to defund light rail.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

I wish Wellington council had proceeded with LGWM after the first consultations, they had overwhelming support for light rail, and the extra tunnels. And it would be well under construction by now.

That's not what these guys are about though, they want intercity passenger services restored, IE heavy rail.

[–] jeff11@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 years ago (3 children)

I'm in favour of public transport, but these people are an embarrassment. I've told them that civil disobedience is great, but please don't block roads. I suggested they block the door to national and labour party events, as an alternative.

[–] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

As a civil disobedience tactic I can see why you'd do this. Its pretty straightforward to pull off and hard to prevent, which if disruption and attention is your goal is kind of ideal.

By comparison, any political party event of note will have security and therell be only a few key points to disrupt. Roads are everywhere and way harder for the police/security to anticipate and prevent ahead of time.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago (2 children)

There is the rather large downside, in that you are disrupting the lives of ordinary people, many of whom, like myself, need to be driving for work reasons.

Consequently, everyone will hate you. These guys aren't popular at all, especially among Wellington tradies.

[–] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They're not trying to be popular, they're trying to get attention

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean, punching someone will get their attention, but it won't get them on your side.

[–] Xcf456@lemmy.nz 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They're not punching people though

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 0 points 2 years ago

It's a metaphor.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I want to be clear I think it's fairly annoying and potentially dangerous to glue oneself to a major arterial road. That said, the goal is to annoy people like you until you stop driving and start taking the train. It'd be a better plan if the trains weren't wildly unreliable.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I've got a van full of tools I need to do my job, dumbass. Public transport simply isn't an option for me.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Rude much? I didn't say anything at all about what you should do, I only said what their goal was. Way to be an asshole about it, dickhead.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

annoy people like you until you stop driving and start taking the train.

This isn't saying anything about what I should do? And what do you mean by "people like me", anyway? You get back what you give out, sunshine.

Don't make assumptions about me, you know nothing about my like.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The goal is

But you ignored that part. As well as everything else I had written.

You're the one making assumptions here. Or you're being deliberately obtuse just to pick a fight on the internet. Either way, fuck you for being nasty to me when all I was trying to do was talk about the subject of the thread.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -2 points 2 years ago

Just remember, there's a large chunk of people who need to drive, for various reasons, and your assumption that everyone is driving because it's easier for them isn't really helpful.

[–] Turun@feddit.de 1 points 2 years ago

"I understand, but please don't inconvenience me"

I get where you're coming from, it may take you longer to get to work or something. But man...

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -5 points 2 years ago

Their cause is intercity rail services, which, by all accounts, will be expensive to run, and require heavy subsidies.

All while a decent network of intercity buses are operating.

[–] deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Heaven forbid pedestrians cause congestion!

clutches pearls

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

a person walking rather than travelling in a vehicle.

They're not pedestrians.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

So, did anything happen?

[+] DLSchichtl@lemmy.world -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Oh man, those guys are fun to wind up.

None of them have ever used a vehicle for anything other than personal transport, they seem to think everyone with a pickup truck is driving it purely for the sake of their ego, even if they have a rural property, or need it for towing.

They don't seem to understand the concept of towing capacity, and seem to think a van can do anything a pickup can do, including tow 3+ tonnes and travel off road.

Carrying on with the anti pickup line, they made a post making fun of a Ford Ranger, because they had a ladder on the roof that wouldn't fit in the bed. It was an extension ladder almost as long as the vehicle. Another poster pointed out that some cargo vans have storage above the driver's head, meaning the ladder could go in the van. This is a vehicle that would have been taller, longer, and wider than the Ranger.

They're completely out of touch with reality.

[+] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -7 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Restore Passenger Rail spokesman James Cockle told media the group’s demands are for affordable nationwide passenger rail and free urban public transport.

What do these people have against buses? We have a fairly decent intercity bus network, which is affordable and reasonably fast, in fact faster than the train in most cases. Let rail handle freight, it's what rail does well.

In addition to being out of touch with reality, this is also not how you get people to support your cause.

[–] ciaocibai@lemmy.nz 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Yeah busses are potentially part of the solution, but decent rail connections can be more disruptive (positively) over longer distances e.g Welly - Palmy, Auckland - Hamilton etc.

Having previously lived in China and experiencing the amazing train network there I definitely see the benefits of a solid rail system. Way more efficient than busses too.

Nuts to me that places like Wellington had pretty good electric bus systems with trolley busses but replaced them largely with diesel. Not sure what the bus fleet is like now though.

Also not sure why you are being downvoted for a pretty reasonable discussion.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 0 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Reddit is fucking weird about trains, and it looks like that has filtered over to here.

Our bus fleet is mostly battery electric now.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Didn't all the trolley busses get scrapped in favor of Diesel some time ago?

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

The plan was to replace them with battery electric buses, with the diesels being a stop-gap measure.

To nobody's surprise, the new buses took a lot longer to arrive than expected, but they are mostly there.

[–] Rangelus@lemmy.nz 2 points 2 years ago

Ah nice. It's been a while I've been in Welly, so I wasn't sure what the current status is.

[–] Ozymati@lemmy.nz 4 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think they want rail between suburbs and cities. Definitely if there was rail direct from Porirua to Lower Hutt a huge amount of people who live in one place would suddenly be willing to work in the other, or vice versa.

[–] Ilovethebomb@lemmy.nz -2 points 2 years ago (1 children)

They probably would, but that would be ridiculously expensive, as it would require extensive tunnelling.

I've read some of their demands, mostly they want the old level of intercity services restored. Which, as I’ve already said, is currently served quite well by bus services.

[–] liv@lemmy.nz 1 points 2 years ago

Bus services in the regions seem to have really nosedived since covid.