this post was submitted on 25 Apr 2024
74 points (100.0% liked)

United Kingdom

5110 readers
795 users here now

General community for news/discussion in the UK.

Less serious posts should go in !casualuk@feddit.uk or !andfinally@feddit.uk
More serious politics should go in !uk_politics@feddit.uk.

Try not to spam the same link to multiple feddit.uk communities.
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.

Posts should be related to UK-centric news, and should be either a link to a reputable source, or a text post on this community.

Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.

If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread.

Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.

Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
all 30 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] tal@lemmy.today 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For our ocean’s sake, we can’t keep kicking the can – or bottle – down the road. We call on the UK government to speed up this law and to follow Wales’s ambition to include plastic, metal and glass.”

The "ocean's sake"?

Glass doesn't float. If it winds up in the ocean, one just gets beach glass.

In fact, we had a place up in California where a beach was being directly used as a dump once. The only remaining stuff, after the metal had rusted away and such, was glass, and it all got turned into beach glass. The state went from trying to stop people from dumping things on the beach to banning people hauling away the beach glass; it had become a tourist attraction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass_Beach_%28Fort_Bragg%2C_California%29

[–] wewbull@feddit.uk 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Glass bottle recycling is about reuse. Wash the bottle and use it again.

In the UK off-licenses (liquor stores) used to partake in a scheme where they'd take your empties and give you money off your next purchase. Those bottles were then sent back to the bottling plant to be reused. It went away with the wide spread use of plastic bottles (80s).

Aas far as I'm aware, there's no reason not to do it again except the distribution network is more centralised now, and sending stuff back is something nobody budgets for. I expect this is the "too complicated aspect".

[–] thehatfox@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

there’s no reason not to do it again except the distribution network is more centralised now, and sending stuff back is something nobody budgets for

So I’ve heard that’s the main issue with reusing glass bottles now. Drink bottling is more centralised which means higher transport costs to return them, making it uneconomical. When it used to be done here bottles would return to a more local bottling plant.

[–] Sizzler@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

Those same lorries that deliver go back to site.

[–] theo@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

My interpretation is that by excluding glass from the scheme, this may incentivise consumers to buy plastic instead. Some of which will inevitably end up in the ocean.

[–] FinishingDutch@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The thing with bottle deposits is: it really only annoys the people who generally already do the right thing anyway.

Here in the Netherlands, we expanded bottle deposits to cans and small bottles last year. A 15-25 cent deposit.

It’s causing all sorts of problems: deposit machines are breaking down in record numbers and there’s too few of them. A lot of places sell cans and bottles, but a lot of them don’t take returns. This means that it’s a giant hassle to return the cans and bottles, so a lot of people now just see it as a price increase and don’t bother with the return.

The deposit also causes MORE litter in the streets. How? Because we’ve effectively incentivised the homeless and drug addicts to break open trash bins and search for cans and bottles. They break one open, tear out the trashbag, dump the contents and take the bottles. Which attracts rats, since they leave the rest. My city now regularly looks like a garbage dump.

Meanwhile, some call it a succes because ‘there’s fewer bottles and cans on the streets’, while conveniently ignoring literally all the other trash that now gets dumped on it.

I’d honestly vote today to abolish the deposit scheme. Sounds good on paper, but in practice I’m only seeing downsides.

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The thing with bottle deposits is: it really only annoys the people who generally already do the right thing anyway.

I recycle everything possible (including tetrapacks and pill tray thingies) so all this is doing is taxing me for doing the right thing or causing me extra hassle dragging everything down to the local bottle return machine that may or may not be working.

[–] Sizzler@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tetrapak aren't recyclable, don't believe their corporate lies.

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Got a source for that as they havr collection bins at all tips and clearly put a lot of effort into this. I'd be saddened to find out it's a PR exercise.

[–] Sizzler@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

It's thin layer of cardboard, plastic and metal glued together. Burn and reclaim the metal maybe but as a County Council Recycling Officer in a previous position, I honestly hate how they've avoided the spotlight. Plain plastic bottles are better than them. It's all PR and soon enough the truth will out.

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I did some looking around. Apparently the paper is washed out and recycled, the plastic and metal becomes polyaluminium which is downcycled into single use products that then end up in landfill. So not ideal but not incinerated. Tetra Pak's promo video is interesting in that regard as they show the process with the paper being recycled but conveniently forget to mention what happens to the polyaluminium. That video also says the cartons can be shredded and turned into board for construction purposes but doesn't say how much of that ends up bring used in this way.

It definitely feels like someone needs to do more digging into this.

[–] Sizzler@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

By my own guesstimate 95% of tetra ends up in the bin. There is something funky going in.

Found this (Indonesia)

https://re-pal.com/recycle-over-4250-tons-of-used-beverage-cartons-and-multi-layered-plastics-to-make-50000-new-pallets/

[–] Emperor@feddit.uk 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

By my own guesstimate 95% of tetra ends up in the bin.

It's likely 80%+ and will stay that way until councils include it in their curbside recycling collection (some do) because it is either too much hassle.for most people to take to their local tip so they stick it in non-recyclable or they see the recycle sign and lob it into that bin where it gets extracted at the recycling centre and sent to landfill or incineration. It's the same with "recycle in store" plastic.

Found this (Indonesia)

Making the whole carton into panels or pallets definitely seems the best way to go as it is less water and energy intensive and stops the polyaluminium from eventually ending up in landfill. It's unclear how much of it ends up on that path.

[–] Sizzler@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 year ago

I noticed that they are trialing replacing the aluminium with a wood chip so they clearly know the writings on the wall.

[–] khannie@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I'm exactly the same. This has recently come in in Ireland and it is annoying the piss out of me. It's a tax with no upside as my recycling hasn't increased in any way.

[–] mbirth@lemmy.mbirth.uk 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The deposit scheme in Germany is a huge cash cow as people pay for the deposit but then never return the container or the container gets destroyed, label comes off and gets rejected by the machine, etc.

And as you said, people leave empty bottles around public bins for homeless people to collect. However, this slowly became an accepted method of “income” for them and you see them checking every rubbish bin for empty bottles. (If a bottle isn’t quite empty, they’ll empty it onto the pavement.) And there are even territorial fights.

Also, lots of fraud with fake deposit coupons (you deposit the bottles in a machine, machine prints a coupon and you take that coupon to the till where you get your money - people now find someone with a label printer and print fake coupons to cash in).

And I loathe having to carry an empty plastic bottle around all day when I’m not near any place to return it. You can’t even squish it as then the machine won’t accept it. Which also means you’re taking huge bags of air to the store every few weeks.

I don’t see any issues with empty bottles and cans around London. Definitely not more than in Berlin. So I can only assume this scheme was proposed so that a few people can fill their pockets with the expected money. As always.

[–] anonymous111@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Why is this needed when there is kurb side recycling in the UK?

[–] Tweak@feddit.uk 8 points 1 year ago

Recycling is bullshit, we should be re-using glass with a deposit system. Like much of Europe.

[–] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago

The separate the actually recyclable plastic from the rest of the "recyclable plastic"

[–] autotldr 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is the best summary I could come up with:


A UK deposit return scheme for recycling drinks bottles has been delayed to 2027, meaning it will not be in place until almost a decade after it was proposed.

He said the delay was because additional time was needed to synchronise the policy of the devolved administrations in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales with that in England.

The scheme is intended to cut litter on land and sea by paying consumers a small cash sum to return their bottles and cans.

Steve Reed, the shadow environment secretary, said: “We’ve gone through four prime ministers since the Conservative government first promised a deposit return scheme for recycling bottles.

The Conservatives simply don’t care that plastic bottles end up littering our streets, parks, rivers and seas.

Labour will work across Britain and with business to bring in a deposit return scheme that will stop this waste and clean up our environment.”


The original article contains 555 words, the summary contains 149 words. Saved 73%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] FatLegTed@piefed.social 3 points 1 year ago

He said the delay was because additional time was needed to synchronise the policy of the devolved administrations in >Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales with that in England.

What a load of old fish parts.