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submitted 6 months ago by Brkdncr@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

Title reads like at ad, but this is a new way to reach energy independence. I actually have a small EcoFlow device and it’s pretty good for the price.

I hope this tech can be made available in the US soon.

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[-] deafboy@lemmy.world 116 points 6 months ago

Plug-in systems are built around a microinverter that feeds solar energy back into the home via a standard wall jack.

What the actual fuck?

The PowerStream has three proprietary ports: one that connects to your MC4 solar panels

Disqualified.

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

First part is classic stuff right?

[-] greentreerainfire@kbin.social 96 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Yeah. My grandfather (former electrician and electrical inspector) had a specific outlet he’d plug a gas generator in to back feed power into the house. This was in the 80s and 90s.

He also pointed out that he turned the main off so it did not back feed into the grid and power lines that a lineman is expecting to not be live.

[-] sugartits@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

From the article:

And when there’s a power outage, the PowerStream will turn off automatically to ensure there’s no electricity in the wires in order to protect line workers from shock. The PowerStream will only turn back on when the grid power returns.

[-] scarabic@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

But isn’t a power outage the time you need it?

[-] Nindelofocho@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

I think its more that you can supplement you normal power draw so your electricity bill isint so high

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[-] holycrapwtfatheism@kbin.earth 20 points 6 months ago

Transfer switch is the proper tool for this and is a fairly simple install.

[-] ramble81@lemm.ee 12 points 6 months ago

Yeah my parents house had an rv/generator hookup and it had a huge bar across both the breakers so power could only flow in one direction. If you hooked up a generator it would cut the house off from the mains.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Your grandfather's extra outlet for the alternate feed was the other half of a switch that flipped over when the mains power died. It shuts off the power connection to the house by flipping over and ensures no power goes back over the line, among other things. We have these - albeit the size of a washing machine - in really big datacenters.

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[-] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 12 points 6 months ago

Should not be via a standard wall jack. As far as I know.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 8 points 6 months ago

Depends on electrical code which depends on, most of all, your standard plugs. In Germany Schuko is deemed non-optimal, but acceptable, for up to 800W.

...no issues regarding exposed prongs, if the inverter doesn't see AC to sync to it doesn't output anything. It's not a dumb spinny magnet generator we're talking about here.

Most people don't have an outlet on their balcony, though, and weather-proofing the thing is an issue in any case so while you're at it you can just as well put in a proper Wieland outlet. 20 bucks or so, the expensive part will be the electrician not the outlet.

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[-] piyuv@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

I’m also against proprietary systems but is there an open alternative?

[-] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 6 months ago

Plug-in systems are built around a microinverter that feeds solar energy back into the home via a standard wall jack.

What the actual fuck?

What's wrong with that? That's how basically any balcony solar system works.

[-] Sleepkever@lemm.ee 14 points 6 months ago

The cables in your walls are designed for a certain maximum current before they start to heat up. This current is limited by your breaker.

Now if you introduce a plug in solar setup your current is limited by your maximum breaker capacity + whatever your solar setup can generate.

So if I'd use the specs from the article and apply it to a normal dutch home situation: 16A breaker, + 800W at 230V, which means ~3.5A = 19.5A max. which is probably still fine for short durations.

But now some genius doesn't read the fine print and hooks up 2 or 3 on the same circuit. There is no electrician that tells him that's dangerous because it's all self installed and he doesn't know any better. And all of a sudden you are up to 26.5A and you got glowing, smoking wires in your walls...

[-] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 6 months ago

But now some genius doesn’t read the fine print and hooks up 2 or 3 on the same circuit. There is no electrician that tells him that’s dangerous because it’s all self installed and he doesn’t know any better. And all of a sudden you are up to 26.5A and you got glowing, smoking wires in your walls…

Ok sure, that makes sense. This might actually be an issue.

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[-] Bizarroland@kbin.social 8 points 6 months ago

That happens quite a bit in a lot of areas. It sounds stupid but your toaster does not care where the electricity it is using comes from.

As long as the sine waves are in sync with each other then you have nothing to worry about.

It's probably not standard in America because the technology is newer and the regulations haven't caught up.

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 27 points 6 months ago

2 problems….

  1. If you forget to turn off the mains, it could really make a lineman unhappy.

  2. Most of these setups require a reprimand dangerous “ suicide cord”

[-] Bizarroland@kbin.social 5 points 6 months ago

The first problem is solved by line sensing technology. If there is not power coming in and off of the switch then the inverter will not pump energy back into the system, at least on the ones that are not $12 cheap Chinese junk off of taobao.

And rather than suicide cords they generally have an IEC connector (standard rhombusy shaped computer power connector) on one end and a normal prong on the other.

But you are right that it is dangerous and not recommended to anyone, especially the people that are not smart enough to take the appropriate concerns and considerations into mind before using it.

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[-] mxcory@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 6 months ago

I know enphase micro inverters have "anti-islamding" tech that disables output when they lose grid connection. I would expect any reputable manufacturer to also have the same tech.

I don't expect that for backup generators, but the proper way for them is via a transfer switch. You can wire in a properly made cable instead of a suicide cable. The transfer switch would prevent the inlet connector to the house from ever being live. (And since it is a proper cord from the generator, there would be no exposed ends coming from it.)

[-] ArbiterXero@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago

I agree on all points, but honestly I’d be pretty upset if I got a solar setup that didn’t work when the power was out haha

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[-] Clasm@ttrpg.network 60 points 6 months ago

Yeah, non-USA for this atm, as much fun as it would be to plug such a system into an apartment.

I believe that the US requires that a direct-feed system has to plug into a physical kill switch setup to prevent back-feed of power during an outage.

Still pretty neat, though!

[-] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 25 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Same for the EU.

Solar inverters also need to follow the grid frequency

[-] MinorLaceration@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago

They don't follow the grid frequency because the EU or US regulations require it, they follow the grid frequency because physics demands it.

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[-] YerbaYerba@lemm.ee 16 points 6 months ago

Also in the US regular 120v outlets are fed from 1 of 2 transformer legs. If you back fed power through a 120v outlet, roughly half of the circuits in your home would function and the others would be dead.

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[-] farcaster@lemmy.world 6 points 6 months ago

According to the article this system also detects power outages and shuts off when they happen. Just like full-scale solar power systems. But yeah, no physical kill switch.

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[-] CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world 33 points 6 months ago

I would, but i'm not allowed by the HOA the hang shit on my balcony.

Fuck'n HOA assholes.

My balcony is also on the right side of the building too, it would be perfect.

[-] r0ertel@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Vote.

I ran my small HOA for 1 term and people came at me, bitched about stuff and I got them to come to a meeting where the other homeowners could express their concerns about the proposal and we'd come to an agreement and write up a change. It was no big deal. We even negotiated group rates for shared services and made it so that the costs of the HOA were offset by the savings from the services.

On the other side of the coin, when I left my position to give somebody else a turn at the process I largely automated, they ran it into the ground and bankrupted it while chasing a personal grievance against the city.

Somehow, the HOA attracts power hungry nobodies but they can be voted out if you're willing to work at it. Also, talk to your neighbors. My guess is that there are others who would back your proposal.

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[-] Magnetar@feddit.de 9 points 6 months ago

Aren't you supposed to be the land of the free?

[-] modus@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

That's just what our fascist oppressors tell us.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 20 points 6 months ago

Wow that’s interesting. I hate how much power my pool eats up in the summer, I’ve been looking for something economical to help run it off of clean energy since the pump runs during peak solar hours anyway.

[-] Brkdncr@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

You can do that today with their setup I think. You would need to plug the pump into one of their batteries and run their solar panel to the battery. You’d also put the battery on grid power.

The article is focused on an inverter that pushes energy back to the grid, something we don’t have yet at this market level.

[-] DrunkenPirate@feddit.de 5 points 6 months ago

If you just need the energy for the pool, a small setup without battery is all you need. Saves you half the price. Panels and inverters are around 900€ in Germany. Putting a battery on it makes another 1,200€ and it makes sense only, if you need power in the evening.

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[-] autotldr 6 points 6 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


These DIY systems from EcoFlow, Anker, and others became very popular around Europe over the last few years as energy costs soared amid steadily decreasing solar and battery prices.

I also have six EcoFlow smart plugs attached to things like the washing machine, coffee maker, and home theater projector that tell the PowerStream to send more or less power.

But importantly, I learned a lot about my family’s energy consumption habits and how much power 800W of haphazardly installed solar panels can produce under a weak northern sun.

Importantly, I have gained a degree of energy independence in this uncertain world — and making regular use of an expensive solar generator that was otherwise just waiting for the next road trip or natural disaster.

The hardest part in setting up the PowerStream is doing the math to ensure your solar panels are wired up properly in series or parallel, especially when maxing out the system like I did.

So I should just feed enough solar power into the home to cover my base load during the day and send any excess to the EcoFlow battery for use when the sun goes down.


The original article contains 2,051 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 91%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

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this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
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