agitatedpotato

Or, hear me out, people shouldn't get defensive in a thread explicitly about a fabricated hypothetical. It's meant to be examined and I'm not sorry for examining it.

An Iranian informant who gets intel from Russia most likely. Not gonna make excuses for them, but they're clearly being played by Iran, and Iran got the flare up it wanted. The US is already retaliating on Iran so I'd imagine there's some credence that Iran was deeply involved.

humans didn’t kill any animals themselves; they’re just consuming something that did.

But wouldn't that argument only hold up for flytraps found in the wild? Any that have been cultivated by humans, especially for human consumption, would likely be fed by humans to ensure any food the plant gets is not going to negatively effect the quality of the food. But vegans also wouldn't eat eggs found in the wild, even if they could somehow know that they were unfertilized and abandoned. At the very least this is not a black and white case, I think it's very easy to imagine groups of vegans abstaining from these if they were a food product. Not everyone's definition of vegan is the same I've acknowledged that from the beginning, some vegans go as far as some Jainists do, breathing through cheesecloth to avoid killing as many microorganisms as they can. Everyone draws their own line somewhere, I'm just convinced that if people actually ate flytraps, plenty of vegans would abstain.

Then some plants would still be more carnivorous than others. When I hear someone talking about how clearing land for food kills lots of animal, the typical response I see is that Vegans know this, but try to avoid animal suffering whenever possible because its simply not always possible. I think that line of reasoning could easily be used to say well why eat a fly trap when theres other plants that don't cause as much harm to animals. Imagine if everyone started eating flytraps then they would need to be mass farmed, and mass fed, and I'd imagine they'd look a lot less vegan in that situation.

When you eat that organism, its cells that feed you were produced because it ate flies, those cells are not products of the flies death? No one said killing a plant was killing an animal, What I said was if you avoid products of animal suffering why would you not avoid the biological products of animal suffering? And if humans eating things that harm animals is saving animals then why don't vegans eat carnivorous animals? Because that not what veganism is about. Also the amount of animal death I cause has nothing to do with the debate at hand. One thing does not become vegan simply because something else causes more animal death, I don't even know what point you're trying to make talking about vehicles.

And those are both products of animal suffering, a common definition many vegans use. Come on, now you're just being obtuse on purpose.

There are plenty of vegans who would tell you they abstain from any products of animal suffering, otherwise they would use products that were tested on animals. Just because you test lipstick on animals, doesn't make the lipstick a product of animals, its a product of animal suffering. Your definition is not the only one and doesn't exclude animal tested products, which many vegans go out of their way to avoid.

Well the point of the post is to nit pick a hypothetical since I doubt many people, much less vegans are actually eating those plants, we're all casing judgement here. Especially since not everyone definition of veganism is the same. To me if its dietary and chemical then obviously it doesn't matter, but if the 'product of animal suffering' is someones black and white philosophy then to me Flytraps seem about as vegan as consuming the flies they eat (which is only like one month). While an insignificant amount, it is measurable is all I'm saying, literally a technicality but that's why its a basically hypothetical post online I suppose. In reality, everyone draws their own line somewhere, from the jainists who breath through cheese cloths to protect any microorganisms they can to the carnivours.

If a plant has to eat animals to survive then that plant is a product of animal suffering. Thats why vegans don't drink milk or eat eggs too. So if that's the definition of vegan that someone subscibes to then the flytrap is not Vegan.

That doesn't change how the plant made those cells though.

If the plant is carnivorous are it's cells not the product of animal suffering?