[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago

I agree that Fedora's habit for pushing (sometimes breaking) changes is definitely something to keep an eye out. However, it has been so good over the last (almost) two years. I would even argue that Fedora has become more self-conscious of the consequences and (especially) how this might affect their more casual user base.

Btw, how long ago did you try out Fedora? FWIW, Fedora (Silverblue; to be more precise^[1]^) was the first distro that I've tried and while I've had some experiences with other distros over time (mostly through dual boot), Fedora (Atomic) seems to have become the distro I call home.


  1. It's probably not as masochistic as you might think for a new user 😅. Though I'd have to say that it took some effort, control and discipline to not instantly go back to Windows (or any other Linux distro for that matter).
[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

Hmm..., I think with the level of literacy (or just plain text skimping) we find on the internet, anything that helps in conveying the message is a clear win; especially if merely the use of just two characters enables one to achieve this.

Could you elaborate on what you dislike about it? I'm just genuinely curious*.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

Hmm, one I guess is that it is not “permanent” and deactivates after one command (in Kakoune, you have to explicitly do ‘;’ to collapse the selection to its end (which you can flip with the start using ‘alt+;’) or move around without extending the selection). That’s really the only thing I can think of at the moment and I feel like often it really doesn’t matter tbh, so maybe I was just talking out of my ass there a bit lmao.

Regardless; thank you for mentioning this!

Apparently you can quickly reselect it in vim with ‘gv’ though, which I never checked until now. That’s useful to know.

Hehe, thanks for sharing that; might become useful soon 😅.

One thing I’m really missing from vim though is that it can list directories, has a hex editor, and can read a bunch of other file formats. I think it can even edit remote files over sftp, but maybe I’m confusing that with Emacs. Kakoune just does local text files (though you can of course do stuff like ‘%|xxd’ to pipe the file through xxd to get a hex view, edit and then ‘%|xxd -r’ and save but that feels very very sketchy).

Until yesterday I knew almost nothing about Kakoune. But I've since tried to do some reading; while there's still a lot to uncover and/or explore, I feel as if it tries to offer a more focused experience (for better or worse).

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 10 months ago

I'm not surprised to hear that you preferred Fedora Silverblue over openSUSE MicroOS. Don't get me wrong, I think that openSUSE Aeon/Kalpa (current names for openSUSE MicroOS Desktop) have a lot of potential. However, as it stands, Fedora's Atomic Desktops are just more mature.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Thanks for answering! Much appreciated!

I might be a distro hopper. Every distro just niggles me after a while

Perhaps you've yet to find the one 😜. Your criticism to the different distros is fair though.

I thought Arch because it is almost always up to date and seems to be widely recommended.

Yup, it's by far the most popular rolling release distro. Though, I'd argue that openSUSE Tumleweed -while not as popular- is definitely worth checking out as well. They're, however, quite different from one another. Arch offers a blank canvas, while openSUSE Tumbleweed is relatively opinionated; though it does offer excellent defaults. You would have to make up your own mind whichever 'style' of maintaining a distro suits you best.

I had a go at installing Arch today in a VM using archinstall and set up BTRFS with Timeshift and grub-btrfs and it all seemed fairly straightforward.

Well, that sure does sound promising!

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's perhaps a bit too open of a question to ask 😅. But I'll give it a try:

I'll assume the following:

  • You asked specifically for the 'immutable' distros that are intended to be used on desktop. Which, moving forward will be referred to as 'immutable' desktops.
  • You asked me to look at them in a 'vacuum', thus not comparing it to other 'immutable' desktops. Or at least, it shouldn't be the primary focus.

So without further ado:

  • Out of the earlier named 'versions', Aeon (GNOME version) is clearly the most polished and the only one I would actually recommend using. Regarding Kalpa (KDE version); just a few months ago its (then) most active maintainer had stated the following:

'I am stating, right now, for those of you that are clamoring for it to be so, or asking when it will be “release ready” that microOS Desktop Plasma, is not, and will not be “release ready” anytime soon.'

This, indeed, is quite worrisome 😅. Unfortunately, Greybeard (Sway version) is arguably even less production ready... So for starters, if you want to use any of openSUSE's 'immutable' desktops, then you should definitely use openSUSE Aeon.

  • Regarding the inner-workings of openSUSE's immutable desktops: -though this is merely an oversimplification- one could understand it as openSUSE Tumbleweed's model with some 'extras'. With those extras being:
    • The base system components of the currently running system is snapshot and copied
    • Changes (be it installing/removing packages (natively) or upgrading base system components etc) are applied on the newly copied snapshot atomically; which means it either happens or doesn't. There's no in-between state, even with power outages and whatnot. Thus guaranteeing that a lot of the complexity with updating that would be found on traditional systems is removed. Btw, atomic updates is almost like a basic requirement with how prevalent it is on any distro that's considered 'immutable'.
    • After the changes have been applied successfully, the copy is made read-only.
    • Changes are then supposed to require a (soft-)reboot for them to take effect.

As this model is relatively 'simple' compared to other immutable distros and doesn't seem a radical departure from traditional systems, one might expect a lot of things to 'just continue working'. However, I'm not confident if that's actually the case. Though, I'd love others to chime in and tell us their experiences. This more simple model does come at a 'cost' though; as it stands, this model is not declarative, nor is it reproducible. Which are qualities found on some other 'immutable' distros.

  • The implementation of its release cycle, however, is a major win for openSUSE's immutable desktops and probably the best reason for choosing it over the others. For years openSUSE has pioneered what a stable rolling release is supposed to look like with their Tumbleweed. And its immutable desktops continue to benefit of this. So while blendOS, Fedora (on Rawhide) and NixOS (on unstable) technically are other 'immutable' distros with rolling release cycles, one simply can't deny that they're inferior (in the rolling release aspect) compared to openSUSE's immutable desktops.
  • On a final note, I've often heard that openSUSE's 'immutable' desktops have more 'sane' defaults compared to some of the others. Things like offering Firefox as a flatpak instead, shipping Distrobox by default or installing flatpaks not system-wide but per user etc. These might seem like little nitpicks, and arguably others might simply not agree with these choices. However, I agree that generally-speaking most users should prefer these defaults.

Please let me know in case you were expecting a different type of answer!

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Aight, I actually don't know a lot about it, but I guess something that looks like an answer is better than none. So without further a due.

First of all, Nitrux is quite unique, so I won't be able to do it justice regardless. However, I'd say that it being an 'immutable' distro with OpenRC and focusing on AppImage (over Flatpak/Snap) is the primary one. It's important to note that Nitrux' model doesn't allow you to install .deb packages natively at all. So in that regard, it's one of the less flexible among its 'immutable' siblings. It does offer great support for Distrobox, so you can install your debs, rpms and from the AUR etc if you so desire within a container instead; you can even install other desktop environments with this. Waydroid works. AppArmor is configured. KDE Plasma looks fantastic on Nitrux, but they offer even more spice through their Maui Shell.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

What exactly does uBlue do differently to Silverblue, which makes it easy to modify those parts?

Perhaps I should've been more precise/accurate. The images offered by uBlue are relatively vanilla but "batteries-included" images of Silverblue/Kinoite etc that include the essentials from RPM Fusion among others and ensure that your system continues to function optimally regardless of ongoing issues related to mesa/Nvidia or whatever. So by themselves, they don't do anything special necessarily in terms of modifiability except for having baked in functionality for receiving cosigned OCI images. Which is where the fun begins with the template provided by uBlue making it very easy to create your own custom cosigned OCI image that is modified to your liking and which is continuously pulled from whenever your system does a rpm-ostree update. As the changes don't happen at the client-level (read: your device), but instead before/during 'base-image initialization', one is able to apply changes to e.g the aforementioned /usr directory simply by creating those (modified or not) files in the github repo of their custom image. The linked template is far from exhaustive as one is able to customize it beyond that for which one could refer to the Bazzite or Bluefin images to see the possibilities.

Note that the template of uBlue is only possible because Silverblue/Kinoite etc supports it. So one is able to forego uBlue entirely and create their own image from scratch (as long as it satisifes some criteria). The beauty of (the template provided by) uBlue is that it enables every mortal to engage with that system as it has been made remarkably easy. Heck, I didn't have any prior experience with git or Containerfiles, but I was able to spin up my own image in like two hours or so.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Let's not forget to praise Snapper as well.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

The one thing it does best is offering the capability to share the results so that people can refer/link to it while making an inquiry as such.

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

EDIT: I think what I’m wanting is something that gets new features more frequently, yet doesn’t become unstable. I feel drawn to the desktop eye-candy that I see getting featured with KDE desktops. I seem to believe I’m missing out on something, but can’t directly state what. Ultimately, I think I simply want to move to a more core/upstream version of Linux so that I get new functionality faster. I’m trying to find what I desperately need but never knew it existed.

Thank you OP for clarifying! Distros that are closer to upstream, but still accomplish 'stability' (often through hand-holding) and on which KDE has great support would be (in alphabetical order):

  • Fedora's KDE Spin: Has a semiannual point release cycle, but still continues to get updates to kernel etc almost as soon as they come. Therefore it's sometimes referred to as semi-rolling release. In the middle out of these three in regards to how close it is to upstream.
  • openSUSE Tumbleweed: Sets out to be the stable rolling release; thus receiving a constant stream of updates without foregoing stability. Perhaps surprisingly to some, it accomplishes this rather gracefully. Being on a rolling release enables it be the closest to upstream between these three.
  • Ubuntu (their KDE flavour is more popularly known as Kubuntu): Also has a semiannual point release cycle, but mostly foregoes updates besides security-related ones and the ones received for snaps. It is the furthest away from upstream out of these three.

A lot more can be said concerning the differences between these three distros. However, working with them either from inside a VM or through a Live USB is probably a lot more valuable. All three are great picks, so you should be fine regardless.

Please feel free to inquire if you so desire!

[-] throwawayish@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Thank you!

I’m just starting to spread my wings outside of Ubuntu right and see what’s out there.

As you must have been aware of by now; there are hundreds of distros out there. Which obviously makes it a daunting task to find your distro with that overwhelming amount of distros to potentially choose from. However, quite fortunately, the vast majority is actually not even worth considering as a daily driver. Arguably only the popular independent distros (Arch, Debian, Fedora, Gentoo, openSUSE, Slackware and Ubuntu^[1]^ etc^[2]^) are noteworthy, unless you've got very specific wants and/or needs that are only easily accessible through a derivative of theirs. Out of these, Gentoo is perhaps too much of a deep dive at this point in your Linux journey. Slackware ain't bad, but as you've already had some experience with modern Linux distros, I find it rather unlikely that you would enjoy using it; though, perhaps, you might one day (read: decades down the line). So..., only five distros remain... On that note, for whatever it's worth, openSUSE Tumbleweed definitely stands out positively among these IMO (though perhaps another one might be shining even brighter (obviously biased 😜)).

The UI looks real neat as well.

Interesting. Are you referring to the desktop environment? Which -actually- should be reproducible on most other distros*. Or perhaps you're actually referring to YaST? Which is openSUSE's excellent configuration tool; perhaps closest thing that Linux has to Windows' Control Panel. Some even regard it as openSUSE's killer-feature, especially because most other distros (aside from MX Linux) only come with relatively basic configuration tools by comparison. In retrospect, I probably should have mentioned it in my earlier comment 😅.

I’m not really looking for a gaming focused distro right now.

I'm actually glad you aren't; they generally tend to miss out on polish. If you do end up looking into one, then I'd argue it's better to run a dedicated distro as such -perhaps as a dual boot- for all your gaming needs instead of trying to game heavily on your daily driver, unless you find that too cumbersome and/or fear for issues related to storage. I'm aware that this is probably an unpopular take*.

Just something that I can daily drive and occasionally play games with.

Aight, got ya. Well, in that case, openSUSE Tumbleweed is definitely worth considering.


  1. I am very aware that Ubuntu is technically not quite as independent as the others are.
  2. I felt the likes of Alpine, Guix, NixOS, Puppy, Solus and Void are at least worth mentioning as independent distros.
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throwawayish

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