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this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2024
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Maybe it's time to move on from using SSNs for security? We have someting similar in Sweden - "person numbers". If I call the tax authority and ask for someone's "person number" they will tell me. They're not secret in any way, and thus not used as some form of authentication either.
The old social security cards had "NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION" printed on them for a reason.
This. It is so shocking that they just get used as a harder ID than actual ID. Someone didn't get the memo. And by "someone", I mean corporations who haven't had real consequences in 50 years.
They were never actually meant for identification, just got pigeonholed into that role because the government couldn't get support for a national citizen ID or the equivalent. We absolutely need something, but every republican will scream that, "it's a way for the government to track us and limit out freedoms!" and it will be shot down.
The peak of irony considering the porn age ID verification laws and abortion bans they impose on people living in the states they control.
Because they never cared about government overreach. It was always a lie to appeal to gullible rubes.
But how exactly does it work when applying for something like a credit card or going to a doctors office and filling out a form? Because here in the US those ask for SSN
They ask for SSN because there is no other form of national ID in the US (by design). SSNs were not introduced with this use in mind in fact they were explicitly meant to not be used this way, but society has slowly twisted it into a de facto national ID.
what was meant to be used then?
To track contributions and withdrawals to the social security system. Pretty much everyone in enrolled, so pretty much everyone has an SSN.
Americans explicitly didn't want a national ID.
We really are kinda fuckin dumb in the US. It's like we're equally deeply suspicious of our government but too dumb to understand how it works so we ends up with blind, ignorant cynicism
And yet we have multiple of them now. Drivers license, SSN, and if you/your parent are/were military, EDIPI/DoDID.
Military, sure, but driver's licenses are state-level, not federal. Health care has been using birthdate like a password (one that is largely publicly available) for way too long now. At least financial institutions can use account numbers and financial history and code words, but even all that isn't great.
It's a messy patchwork, but I think at the time of the creation of the SSA, the US may have still thought of itself as a land of second chances. IBM numbering Holocaust victims probably didn't help the idea of a national ID, nor did the victim narrative of groups like the NRA.
I'm not sure if it's possible not to have a national ID anymore, so denial of it just forces a terribly kludgy implementation from whatever is around.
Are they though, with RealID requirements for new licenses now?
RealID is option there's no Federal mandate for it.
Sure. As long as you don't need to
Then it's optional. Non-RealID isn't offered anymore in Ohio as far as I'm aware, I'd imagine other states are the same.
My state still offers non-RealID compliant licenses. And the down side isn't all federal buildings only certain ones plus domestic flights. But a passport will also work for those if you don't have one.
https://www.dhs.gov/real-id/real-id-faqs
Hmm, that's a good point. Washington finally relented, they were a hold-out for a long time.
My number did not change after Real ID. I guess it could work if you added the state postal code to it.
Yes
I think there should be an amendment allowing the creation of a Unique Population Registry Key that uses numeric and alphabetic characters.
Everyone should also get a procedurally-generated theme song.
I'm cool with this as long as I can reserve Thunderstruck by AC/DC.
Nordics have resolved this by having the strong digital authentication. Services like banks and tele operators work as identity providers for individuals/companies.either through mobile network or app on your phone, and these is a central service that links these together.
This way third parties can safely identify you, and also it follows same OpenID/OAuth2.0/MFA principles, which are industry standards.
Having experienced both systems the Nordic ones are well thought out, streamlined and feel extremely secure.
The US system feels so absurdly predatory and intentionally insecure. It's often slower, non-standardized, and glitchy(e.g. student loan stuff).
In general, fraud is much easier in the US which is is by design as stated elsewhere in the thread.
Doctor's office and credit card companies don't need your ssn. It is one of the easiest places to steal them from.
https://clark.com/show-notes/10-worst-places-give-your-social-security-number/
You don't have to give anyone your SSN, especially for medical. There are ways to bill without SSN.