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I did. Many times over the years. Did you?
Again, intolerance to intolerance does not grant carte blanche reaction. If you see a KKK person expressing free speech, one cannot simply shoot them. You understand this, correct?
Like, I know this is cool and bad ass in the punk rock scene but when you unpack it at a societal level, it has seriously flawed logic and risks.
Intolerance of intolerance is the only way to maintain a tolerant society.
Give me a reason you can't other than law (and I'm ignoring you jumping from punching to shooting)
I know what the paradox of tolerance is. Some of you here sound really young — like under 20 — and you've just recently learned about this concept and it's blowing your mind and so you repeat for lack of a better, deeper understanding. Yet I say again the untouched point: It does not give you carte blanche to react however you see fit.
That's not to say we shouldn't call out fascist behavior; that's not to say we shouldn't counter-protest when they voice their own bullshit. That's not to say that when they throw the first punch that we don't deliver two punchers harder in return. That's not to say that when they try to vote, we ensure that we vote in greater numbers to marginalize them. Across the globe we've sustained tolerant societies for quite a degree of time without a law that says, "to maintain civil order, we must all punch Nazis, or worse."
Yes, people should be intolerant to intolerance; but there still requires a degree of proportionality at play here. Punching a Nazi violates countless other laws of society we've identified for ourselves that help to also maintain a tolerant society, and until that Nazi punches someone themselves, then there is no reciprocation.
Please review the landmark case, Brandenburg v. Ohio.
Preemptively striking nazi (or kkk, etc.) consequences:
It's a bait that often leads to martyrdom and increased recruitment. They take said video and go, "look at the tolerant left! Look at their hypocritical ideals about free speech!"
Vigilante justice is risky, both for the victim and yourself: 1) The bar for evidence of vigilante justice is tenuous at best, and you may attack someone innocent, or more importantly someone who may escape from the propaganda in time but now may simply double-down. 2) This doesn't hold up in court. You will get charged with battery and receive a felony while the nazi goes free. Your time is better served dismantling the rhetoric online.
Don't become what you hate. Ironically the rhetoric you use here is also the logical loophole for which right-wing extremists rationalize their violence as to why they are the good guys.
Because in your scenario they are not a threat of imminent violence, and by being a vigilante you prevent society from enforcing consequences in the way the social contract defines - through the justice system.
Now, in a scenario where they are about to commit violence, or the justice system has failed, the balance may be different.
The social contract only applies to the tolerent. By allowing the intolerant to spread their hate you allow them to spread their ideas. Physical violence isn't the only kind of violence. Allowing the intolerant to speak intolerance you are being tolerent of the intolerant.
But there's an important difference between allowing intolerance, and letting the legal system be the arbiter of how it should be disallowed.
Vigilante justice not only deprives the perpetrator of their right to a fair trial and proportionate punishment (yes, being intolerant does not deprive you of your human rights) but also denies the victims their right to see the perpetrator receive justice.
YOU do not get to be the arbiter of justice, just because you think someone is a terrible person. Maybe they're mentally ill. Maybe they have dementia. Maybe they're also a victim of abuse.
Document the incident, protect and comfort the victim, contact the police and allow actual justice to take place.
Please define my argument for me.
You didn't answer my questions. You first.
Edit: He couldn't answer.
Ah the venerable "No you" form of argument.
I mean, I'm just being intolerant to bullshit. You start bullshitting me, I'll start dodging just the same buddy :)
Don't dish out what you can't take back.
You're definitely dodging