133
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
133 points (97.2% liked)
News
23259 readers
2946 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
You are correct, the "ghost city" claim is about a decade old and in the time since then good functioning cities developed incorporating those infrastructure and urban resources built previously.
Zhujiang New Town for example can house up to two million people (often moving out from the 7-10 million living in the old areas) and while I dislike the urban planing of it, it was once among the foremost called "ghost city" in propaganda, yet it is larger than most cities in most states of the US as example.
I also agree that having too many flats seems to not be that bad a problem to have. Especially when 2‰ of the US are unhoused - even though there are millions of empty flats.
Right up until the demand for housing turns flat and then negative due to unquestionable demographic realities facing China. When such a huge percentage of the populations net worth is tied to real estate, the impact of a housing crash can't be ignored. And there is a storm coming, the numbers don't lie. In the next 20 years China's population WILL shrink
https://www.salon.com/2023/07/30/chinas-great-leap-backward-so-much-for-the-next-dominant-superpower/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/china-population-drop_n_63c69f7be4b0cbfd55f616e2
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2023/08/03/china-will-become-less-populous-more-productive-and-more-pricey
The numbers will sink in the next 20 years for pretty much all "developed" OECD countries. Including the US, UK, France, Germany... yet how often do you personally write about that problem? When even people like professor Reich of Berkeley mention the 40(?) trillion $ wealth transfer due to shrinking population and that mostly to a small group of population with reduced demand for housing you seem to focus a lot on a country you are not living in.
Do I think China faces challenges? Surely. Do I think the capitalist market oriented parts of it will lead to problems that are integral to capitalist market systems? Sure. The CPC has much more power to act on it though. China is currently able to house its population much better than 30 years ago after the crisis of the fall of the Soviet Union. Germany's capital is missing 600k affordable flats at the same time.
Lets see how things will play out, but similar articles were published every couple of months for the last 20 something years. That generates sentiment.
The difference between those OECD countries is that they allow migration. Nationalistic and racist temper tantrums notwithstanding, those countries are bolstering their working age ranks with migrants. China is distinctly anti-migration. So they've been digging a giant hole that's going to take a LOT to fill. And they haven't even stopped digging yet (first rule of getting out of a hole!)
So, could China change that stance as a way to mitigate the issue? Sure. But they better up their human rights record or they are only going to attract the most desperate of migrant with no other options. That doesn't bode well for a strong economic engine. Though cheap exploitable labor does help [shrug]