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Death toll from Israeli strikes rises to nearly 400, Lebanon says
(www.theguardian.com)
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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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Are you addressing this comment to people who think Iran is.... good? You're right that they are not nice.
I think I understand your point: Iran is just in it to hurt Israel and doesn't actually care about Palestinians.
But then isn't the enemy Iran? How is killing some Lebanese child alongside a "terrorist" going to stop the next attack? Iran will just continue funding, surely? Probably with more willing recruits.
Obviously nobody wants war with Iran, I get that. So, and I know this is crazy, but maybe this is a problem you can't murder your way out of? Just an idea.
The blame needs to lie with the aggressors, which in this case is Iran. People see Palestinians dying and assume that Israel is just beating them up because they're bullies, when it's Iran that's doing the bullying via terrorist groups and Israel is just fighting back.
Diplomacy won't solve the issue, because Iran doesn't want a diplomatic solution and is happy to keep handing out guns and rockets to disillusioned young men just to weaken Israel for as long as they want.
So do you think Israel should go to war with Iran? Or are you happy with innocent Palestinians and Lebanese paying the price instead?
But I will say, when Israel does something, the blame lies with Israel. The blood of the dead is on Israel's hands and it will never wash off.
I think Iran should stop funding terrorists.
If you want to get into who has who's blood on their hands, you've got a very large history book to read. I don't think there is a single non-island country (and even some of those have it) that doesn't have a history steeped in humans killing other humans over the land.
They won't. So yet again, do you think Israel should go to war with Iran? Why waste time fighting proxies?
Because Nukes are a thing, that's why all big countries fight proxy wars now. Ukraine, Israel, Afghanistan... All proxies.
So because Iran and Israel have nukes, Israel can't directly fight their enemy, and that means they have to keep playing whack a mole with proxies, like, forever? All while the "collateral damage" and "accidents" are mounting and more and more innocent people die?
There will always be new "moles" popping up, eliminating Hamas creates Hamas 2 and even if you somehow eliminate Hezbollah there will be Hezbollah 2: maximum bollah. Then you will have to fight them and there will be more whoopsies and more kids end up in bodybags. And then I hope you're ready because since we're not fighting the actual enemy but we successfully stopped Hamas 2, guess what we have now?
Seriously. The only result of this is death and the most likely people to die are innocent Palestinian, Lebanese and Israeli citizens.
You realize that the US, Russia, and China have been fighting this way and killing millions of civilians for like 60+ years now right?
Ukraine for example is the US vs Russia/China.
Afghanistan was the US vs Russia a few times.
The whole point of fighting somewhere else is that fewer of your own civilians die.
Uh huh. So no defense of what's happening, just "that's the way it is." Well great. No problem then
This is a matter of perspective. If you were to ask Iran, they'd argue they're supporting Palestinian freedom fighters who Israel aggressively removed from their homeland in 1948, and has been treating with aggression ever since. Back then, there were zionist groups that were labelled as terrorists. Iran has no strategic reason to oppose Israel, they have ideological and historical reasons to do so. Stopping the train of thought at "they want to weaken Israel" is not good enough, you need to grab a history book and ask yourself why they want to weaken specifically Israel so much.
For us, it might seem that there is a conflict that started on october 7th. To them, the conflict never stopped since 48.
Yes, but "aggressively removed from their homeland in 1948" also means "was voted on and approved by the UN as a direct result of what happened to the Jewish people in the world wars, and the collapse of the Ottoman empire for supporting the axis in WW1."
Their country tried to win a war, and failed. Why shouldn't there be consequences for that, like getting broken up and given in pieces to various more friendly groups.
Germany lost territory after the world wars too, but you don't see them shooting rockets at their neighbors to get it back.
You're pretending that Israels independence followed the book as outlined by the UN, but that's not entirely the case. They declared their independence earlier than was planned, and they tried to take control over more areas that the UN agreed upon. And then there's the matter where it's perhaps ethically dubious to let the UN divide the land with little regard to the people already living there, and them perhaps being wary (to put it lightly) of now being under the governance by a group of people who are supported by people who were part of zionist terrorist cells (the history of the Likud party is quite... colourful. I urge you to look it up in order to better understand why the Arab nations weren't so keen on Israel).
Because the consequence is that Israel has treated these people as lesser than their own civilian population, leading to a lot of hardship and strife, even for those who didn't actively participate in the war. And revanchism is a powerful and dangerous force as well. It rarely ends well. And after the war Israel took more land in violation of the UN plans. Even today Israel builds settlements in areas that don't belong to them and which have been declared illegal by the UN.
After Germany lost land in WW1 they famously invented rockets that they then shot at their neighbours, whilst being led by a man with a funny moustache. Revanchism from WW1 drove a lot of Germans into the grubby hands of the Nazi party.
And after WW2 the Allies were not particularly keen on taking more land, specifically to avoid another war, instead opting for temporary occupational zones led mostly by Germans, and an effort was taken to sway the German population to the Allied side. There was land in the east that was swapped over to Poland, but this was also in part because the Soviets intended to keep former eastern Poland and wanted to move people to eastern Prussia, now owned by Poland. They also moved a lot of Germans away from that region.