this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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Pravda, citing numbers found on Facebook, which have NOT been confirmed by anyone is NOT a trustworthy source on anything related to Russia or Ukraine. Full stop.
I should remove this post as well as we don't allow meta posts, but I'll allow it in the interests of transparency.
Honestly what the fuck jordanlund? These numbers are the official numbers from the Ukanian ministry of defense:
https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2024/09/24/the-estimated-combat-losses-of-russians-over-the-last-day-1400-persons-61-artillery-systems-3-anti-aircraft-systems/
You do good work as moderator, but this is a mistake, and you should change it.
Read the post again:
"The information is being confirmed."
None of this is "official".
Wow this is really sad by you, how can it be more official than coming from a government body?
In Ukrainian:
https://www.mil.gov.ua/news/2024/09/24/zagalni-bojovi-vtrati-rosiyan-za-dobu-1400-osib-61-artsistema-ta-3-zasobi-ppo/
In English: https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2024/09/24/the-estimated-combat-losses-of-russians-over-the-last-day-1400-persons-61-artillery-systems-3-anti-aircraft-systems/
That 2nd to last line is translated a little bit differently. And all it means is that the data is updated every day as new info arrives.
What's your problem with that? War is chaos, to claim that the numbers are final would be obviously dishonest.
To claim it's not official is outright ..., yeah I better stop myself here, but I can't stress enough how disappointed I am in your handling of this situation.
By being an official press release, not a Facebook post.
Anyone saying "Well, I saw it on Facebook" is about as reliable as "Well, someone told me on the telephone."
If the numbers are actually confirmed? By all means, re-post it.
Please jordanlund, it is an official press release on Facebook!! They do it on Facebook and Telegram, and the ministry of defense is now again posting on their homepage again, after a ½ year pause after an attack on Kyiv.
So for a period Facebook and Telegram were actually the only places to get them!
Many do this on Facebook or Xitter, Harris confirmed her run for the presidency on Xitter!!! Are you claiming her announcement to run wasn't official?
This is no different. I don't like it either, because those sites are inherently not secure, but that's the world we live in.
Incidentally When Harris announced that on Xitter it was allowed AFAIK without any questions from any moderators.
Edit PS:
You are moving the goal post!! Just in case you didn't notice.
Then why does Pravda say it's unconfirmed? 🤔
Again, nothing about this is "official".
Found the source again, and you are decidedly lying!!
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/09/24/7476472/
They write the information is being confirmed, and it's a translation problem. That means it's being updated.
It's 100% normal military procedure, to confirm/update any incoming information as new information arrives. These people are NOT native english speakers.
You are being an asshole. And you are arguing from ignorance.
That's the exact same source I've been quoting.
The one that says:
"Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Facebook"
and
"This information is being verified".
Source is unvetted information from a Facebook page.
You wouldn't accept it if Russia was doing it, or if Israel was doing it, we aren't accepting it from Ukraine either.
I have personally shown you the link that proves the numbers are the official numbers.
It has been explained very clearly to you that your claim is false, the posts on facebook are OFFICIAL by the armed forces!!
That the numbers are being verified is a normal military jargon, because war is chaos, and the influx of information is constant.
The numbers are verified for instance by flyovers, all military in the world do this!! These numbers are verified constantly, and what we get is a "snapshot" every day.
For a period of almost a year, the numbers in English were ONLY available on the OFFICIAL facebook and telegram page for the armed forces. While the ministry of defense only posted the numbers in Ukrainian and without the graphics.
You are being unreasonable and stubborn for some reason, chaotic yes, good no.
Your claim is false, your reasons are based on ignorance, you are outright lying to support your claim and you are being stubborn as an ass about it. Even if everything you claim was true, pravda.ua is a reputable news source.
This is whataboutism ands a false equivalence, what russian source are you referring to? The Russian Pravda is state owned propaganda, and in Russia if a journalist even call it a war, they will be send to prison!!! Ukraine has free press, Russia does not.
Pravda.ua is part of the free press in line with mostly every other western country.the article was demonstrated to be based on OFFICIAL data.
Thanks. It must not be easy to impartially moderate content regarding a war and keeping it factual, when most of the userbase lives in countries directly or indirectly on one side of the conflict.
That’s why they should be falling back on the reputable sources as shown by their own MBFC bot instead of playing backseat journalist and questioning individual sources within an article.
Sure, but if no reputable sources are available for a specific matter yet (which is especially common when it comes to war bullet-ins from the government of one of the two fronts) then what? Moreover, what would "falling back" consist of? Positing a comment? The user that posted the thing was not banned, and they were clearly instructed to re-post from a more reliable source.
But that’s the whole point - the source linked in the original post is deemed to be reliable by their own determined tool. So why is a mod nitpicking the text within the linked article? It’s either a reputable source or not. They kept stuff from the New York Times about the Oct 6 attacks even though that didn’t have good sources, and they throw out anything from Fox News even if it’s factually correct.
The mod made a mistake and didn’t seem to realize that the Ukrainian Pravda (legit, privately owner, reliable) is different from Russian Pravda (owned by Russian Communist Party, propaganda) - and keeps coming up with excuses why he did what he did. It’s sad
OMG you have NO idea. I know people in Lebanon RIGHT NOW. People who have lived through previous Israeli assaults. It's super hard to step back and go "So, wait, if it were the other side doing this..."
Now you’re just being intentionally obtuse:
Official Ministry of Defence page with the same numbers:
https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2024/09/24/the-estimated-combat-losses-of-russians-over-the-last-day-1400-persons-61-artillery-systems-3-anti-aircraft-systems/
“Data are being updated.”
Obviously a rough English translation and more precisely should probably be “Data subject to change” or “Data continues to be collected”.
Just like any military stats are reported across the world.
Honestly WTF?, please state your source, because I can't find the link to it, because you removed it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM SO CLOSE TO BLOCKING YOU NOW; YOU ARE BEING INCREDIBLY IRRATIONAL!!
Come to think of it, I think I'll report you.
It's been posted elsewhere in the thread by me and others.
Dude, really? Did you not see the links I provided from the official Ministry of Defense site or the verified Facebook account? The other news sites providing the same information?
At this point you seem to only be arguing in bad faith because you don’t want to admit you couldn’t tell the difference between Russian Pravda and the Ukrainian Pravda. That was the only thing mentioned in your comment on the removed post, and everything since then has seemingly been posturing.
This is so disappointing - I’ve been a vocal proponent of the job you mods are doing and supportive of your efforts to use what tools you have to help with a difficult job, and you’re just being completely unreasonable about this.
This ^ is the same person which, after I dared to answer to their buzz-sentences about the war ("Russia is the evil, doing genocide, they don't want to negotiate" etc) with some arguments and a few facts that they didn't like (but they didn't respond to), proceeded to throw in a few more bullet points with zero-claims out of their feelings, and informed me that they blocked me. Lmao. Karen/Simon who believe what they are told on facebook must always bee the right side of history.
You are hereby reported.
Asking just because you didn’t specify - you realize the source was Ukrainska Pravda (privately owned, not state-run) and not Russian Communist Party owned one? And that the Facebook post was from official account of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?
I do realize, feel free to read the actual article here:
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/09/24/7476472/
"Source: General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Facebook"
The Source isn't Pravda, the source is a Facebook post. Yes, I removed it, no, I'm not apologizing for it.
If you follow the link to the facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/GeneralStaff.ua/posts/pfbid02TWTFhaFZBH1v5EJAzJ5fRTM3bBFk3aJ2fFJjneC54VaKM3X9GajtJR9rjQ6pzXysl
These are very obviously the official numbers, on the official general staff of Ukraine facebook page.
If you compare the numbers to the Ministry of defense, you can see they are the same:
https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2024/09/24/the-estimated-combat-losses-of-russians-over-the-last-day-1400-persons-61-artillery-systems-3-anti-aircraft-systems/
You made decision a based on a misunderstanding, which is fair enough, we all make mistakes.
But please accept when you are given the correct info, and adjust accordingly. IDK maybe you are having a bad day.
This is not up to your normal quality of moderation.
You’re being overtly combative when I was merely asking for a clarification on your understanding to ensure there wasn’t a miscommunication.
As I stated in another comment, the source isn’t just “a Facebook post” it’s from the verified and official account of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine https://www.facebook.com/share/p/3n2sU1rSuebWeFp4/?mibextid=WC7FNe
As a mod, is it really your job to second guess sources cited within articles from reputable news sources? Would you have removed the article if it came from the New York Times?
I greatly respect the amount of work you mods have to do, and understand that it can be incredibly difficult - but from the outside it looks like you saw “Pravda”, assumed it was the Russian Pravda, and deleted the post based on that. I’m not saying that’s what happened, but that’s easily an interpretation someone could arrive at looking from the outside.
When someone reports a comment and the entire post looks fishy? Yes, that's exactly what moderators do and we do it literally every day.
IDK why you find the post fishy. These numbers are posted every day on !ukraine@sopuli.xyz.
The top sub on lemmy to follow the Ukraine war.
That’s a strawman. We’re not talking about comments. We’re talking about why you removed a post from a reputable source. You’ve said because it was 1) from Pravda (apparently not realizing all Pravda’s are not the same); and 2) because the article used a FB post as a source.
Just to do a baseline reset here - can we agree that the news article linked to was from a news organization that is generally regarded as reliable, including by the MBFC source your own bot uses? And can we agree that the Facebook post linked to was from the official and verified account of the Ukrainian forces? And that it matches both their website data and other verified social media posts?
Also, Newsweek instead linked a Twitter post of the Ukrainian Forces https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-war-russian-troop-losses-peak-levels-1958439
And MSN didn’t even bother linking to a source at all. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/russia-s-losses-in-ukraine-as-of-september-24-1-400-troops-and-61-artillery-systems/ar-AA1r6qtq
All told, it would seem like the source linked to in the post was the most authoritative available.
Social media is one of the central ways news organizations get information and has been for over a decade. I mean, that's one of the central reasons Musk's Twitter fuckups have been such a big deal! Removing a post for that is really stupid
Yeah, especially since they linked to the post in the article and you could see it was a legit verified account belonging to the Ukrainian General Forces. They did exactly what any good journalist should do.
My biggest problem is the mod is now seemingly reviewing news article sources personally. If an article’s source is judged to be generally very reliable by their own MBFC bot’s source, then a post linking to that source shouldn’t be removed citing that sources unreliability.
Honestly, I still think he saw “Pravda” and thought it was the state-run Russian Pravda and made his decision off that - and has been rationalizing all that ever since rather than admit a mistake. Look at what he commented on the deleted post:
I dunno. Plenty of pro-Russian posters on Lemmy, and in this very thread. It is funny to see people arguing that Ukrainian sources should be removed since they can't give an unbiased picture of Russian casualties, though--I'm sure Russian sources are totally unbiased, lol!
Transparency posts in good faith should always be allowed (assuming the community doesn't get overrun).
Maybe more descriptive removal reasons would be helpful?
I'm not judging based on my feelings. If someone posted a link to the Facebook post that would also be removed.
Saying "Someone said this on Facebook!" is how we got the whole "Haitians are eating pets!" thing.
It's not evidence, it's not "News".
You know the Ukrainian government can’t exactly easily hold a press conference, right? Respected news organizations often reference those Facebook posts, but if you want, here’s essentially the exact same post directly from the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine website https://www.mil.gov.ua/en/news/2024/09/24/the-estimated-combat-losses-of-russians-over-the-last-day-1400-persons-61-artillery-systems-3-anti-aircraft-systems/
Since you’ve decided to step beyond vetting journalistic sources and doing the reporter’s job for them, did you look at the actual FB post? https://www.facebook.com/share/p/3n2sU1rSuebWeFp4/?mibextid=WC7FNe
Right from the verified page of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine
Comparing this to the BS coming out of Ohio is disingenuous at best.
Lol you sound as ridiculous as if you said Trump having an official announcement from a landscaping company wasn't credible. Sure, the location is kind of dumb, but if Trump gets in front of a bunch of cameras and says things, that's as credible as it gets.
...not saying Trump is credible, but that's still a credible source to report "Trump said this."
To put it another way, you're not shooting the messenger for the message he brings, you're shooting him for the horse he rode on.