this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024
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Can someone explain this to a non US person please? You sign your votes?
For mail-ins, yeah, you sign it to do the final "I authorize this document to be my vote".
If you don't authorize it, it's not legally your vote.
NY requires you to also sign the registration book when you vote in person.
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/ELN/8-304
There's a difference, signing the book is done before you vote in person in ny, and is not associated with your ballot or who you voted for. So in person there's no way to know who you voted for.
For mail-in, you don’t sign the ballot itself. You sign the envelope, which is used to validate / track who voted, but is then separated from the actual ballot before counting so there’s no way to track who you voted for.
The person who sent the ballot did this. The assholes that want to fuck with the election are actively trying to get these positions.
For mail in balloting at least in my state you sign the return envelope NOT the ballot itself.
In Illinois they give you two, well 3 technically. The one everything comes in, the one you put the ballot in, and the one you put the ballot envelope in. So the signature is not on the outside or on the ballot itself.
I've always had to sign my vote by mail ballot envelope in CA. They keep a signature on file from when you last registered to absentee (not vote at your polling place) vote and compare the two to see if someone else is trying to vote in your name.
something you have to remember about the US is that while it's a democracy, all the democratic practices were started in the 1800s, often with explicit intention to negate the votes of some discriminated group
And one party is doing their best to keep that heritage of disenfranchisement alive.
You sign the envelope that contains the ballot. That way, an election worker can compare the signature on the envelope to your signature on file.
This is how they make sure that someone didn't steal the ballot from your mailbox and fill it out for you.
Once the signature is verified, the envelope is opened and the anonymous ballot inside is removed and stored with all the others. When they are counted, there will be no way to tell who filled out each ballot.
When I did absentee voting, the voter signature and voter id information were on a perforated slip attached to the outside of the envelope.
That way, the process is something like:
And yet the "scary machines" are too easy to tamper with... they are scared of them because of how hard it would be to get away with tampering with them. And they know their supporters and others in government don't know any better and will jump on the bandwagon of the machines being vaguely scary.
As I understand it, a fairly bulletproof method is to vote using a machine that prints out a human readable card with a punch through the candidates you voted for. So you can confirm the machine understood the options you tapped and then drop the paper ballot into a secure box, which can be used as a backup for manual recounts.
Anybody know if this is what the experts [still] want?
Honestly, while it would certainly help sell it to less technical people. There is no need for a paper copy to make it impossible to get away with tampering with digital voting, building in safeguards entirely digitally is actually enough.
But yes, most commonly recommended option is to have the machines do a quick result, and then paper to verify.
Right on.
Found an article from four years ago that I must’ve read by the way - maybe you already know all about it:
Why experts are overwhelmingly skeptical of online voting
Yeah, it can't be done online, which is why the physical machines are the focus. They can be incredibly tamper resistant, but more importantly, impossible to get away with tampering with them.
In order for a mail in ballot to be valid, the person must sign the envelope.
Yep, we have the same system in the UK. In fact, the envelope looks almost exactly the same so they might even be printed by the same company.
You get two envelopes (one big, one small), a postal voting statement, and a ballot paper.
The actual ballot paper just has a list of options for you to put your X against; there's no personally identifiable information on it. Once you've filled it out you seal it in the small envelope.
You then fill in the voting statement (it has your name and address on it so they can cross your name off as voted, and you sign it so they can check your signature matches the one on file) and both that and the sealed ballot go in the big envelope. That way your vote is still private because they check the vote is valid in one step and then add your ballot to a pile to be counted with the others in a second step, at which point it's anonymous.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/ways-vote/how-vote-post
Wrong. We don't sign our ballots.
Stop talking.
I think we found the guy that's blacking out the envelopes. 🤣
Thanks for informing me of the details.
The key point is that if it's not signed, it gives them an excuse to throw it away.
Do that to enough people and you end up with a big problem. The uncounted votes could swing the election, or you get a messy court case where some judges step in and basically decide the election on their own, or who knows what else.
At a minimum, it's sets the stage for chaos. And from the chaos can emerge a chaotic outcome.
just imagine gremlins running around in your election system at every level. thats pretty much whats happening
I could be mistaken, but most places check your signature against the voter roll. If your signature doesn't match, then they'll ask for an ID. At least that's how it was where I volunteered in 2020. This is done before you get your ballot. You don't actually sign the ballot itself.