88
Estimating the Death Toll of the War on Gaza
(dataactivists.org)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
88 points (91.5% liked)
World News
39019 readers
2257 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Stop with the genocide accusations. It's offensive to people who have actually suffered genocides.
My ancestors did. They went through the Holocaust. Israel is committing a genocide.
It isn't a genocide just because you say it is.
And it is nothing like the Holocaust. Not even remotely similar. There is literally nothing, not a single thing, that is similar.
Similarly, it isn't not a genocide just because the perpetrators say it isn't.
Many experts and scholars do make the claim that this is genocide, and frankly a significant section of the world that doesn't have a direct vested interest (i.e. not involved) seems to be of the opinion that it is.
Most people are painfully ignorant about Israel and soak up the propaganda they see on TikTok.
An accusation of genocide is a pretty serious accusation and the onus is on people who make the accusation to prove the case. You don't get to call it genocide just because you hate Israel.
No, but as I said plenty of experts and scholars are calling it one. I believe the ICJ said that it is "plausible," which I taken to mean that it is inconclusive. Consider that this was many months ago before the more recent escalations.
For my own part, I'm neither an expert nor do I have enough reliable, unbiased information to make any sort of assertion on the topic. Reasonably, I can only defer to the experts and try to filter out sources that have a vested interested (in either direction). There are experts saying both yes and no, so it really comes down to who you trust.
Newsflash: lots of these "experts" hate Israel. Same reason why they seem single-mindedly focused on such a tiny country with all the other atrocities and human rights abuses happening around the world. Did you know that just yesterday the Turkish military was bombing the Kurds?
And no, the ICJ did not rule that it is plausible Israel is committing genocide. This is a popular misconception. The former head of the ICJ clarified the ruling: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-68906919
"Ms Donoghue explained that the court decided the Palestinians had a “plausible right” to be protected from genocide and that South Africa had the right to present that claim in the court."
In other words, the court basically said the case can move forward. That's it.
Unfortunately, there is no unbiased information about Israel. Even the so-called experts are biased. Israel is arguably the most divisive country on the planet (which seems odd for such a tiny country of only 9 million citizens) and anybody writing about it does so because they have strong opinions about it.
Well, nothing is going to convince you that Israel might (not necessarily is, but might) be committing genocide since you are just going to claim that experts from multiple nations and walks of life sre biased.
One could reasonably conclude that this means the case is inconclusive. The case hasn't been dismissed, but it hasn't rendered a verdict of guilty or acquittal either. The question is still open.
You do appear to have already made up your mind on this matter. You have other comments authoritatively proclaiming that Israel is not guilty.
Of course nothing is going to convince me of that because the facts simply don't support it. By the way, did you know that during the 2014 war in Gaza, when the death toll was around 2500, people were accusing Israel of committing genocide then too? Anti-Zionists deliberately stretch the bounds of these concepts to make Israel a pariah. Just keep throwing accusations around and eventually something will stick. And even if it doesn't, Israel's enemies will continue to believe it anyway. This is a longstanding part of their propaganda strategy.
No, it literally means nothing other than, "We, the ICJ, can hear this case."
Ignoring every fact you don't like usually does that.
Besides the point of arguing if or isn't a genocide, you have to admit its pretty fucking bad that Israel is doing something that looks so much like one right?
Even if not genocide they shouldn't be bombing, killing, or starving their neighbors
Like I said, people were screaming genocide in 2014 when the war lasted 2 weeks and the death toll was miniscule. Meaningless.
They were violently attacked and they have the right to respond with military force, the same right that any sovereign nation has. It's one thing to question whether Israel could be doing more to prevent civilian casualties, but if your starting point is that Israel just shouldn't respond at all, then your position is simply unreasonable to begin with.
See this is again you ignoring what is happening. A response is not destroy everything.
Death toll isn't the issue. It's their systematic destruction of the country. Their schools, hospitals, infrastructure and records.
It meets all the criteria. Even your response is just Israel can kill everyone and it would be justified even while being the ones lording over the Palestinians.
Gaza isn't a country, it's a tiny enclave. War is very destructive. The best way to avoid it is to not start wars.
Oh yeah, the singularity of the Holocaust. The same kind of thinking that empowers Germany to aide countries in committing all kinds of atrocities all around the world just because those will never be THE Holocaust, so it's okay.
The Holocaust was unique and when someone feels the need to downplay it, that reflects very poorly on them.
Every single genocide is unique. Not just the holocaust. Including the one committed in Palestine at the hands of the zionists nowadays.
And again, Gaza is not a genocide.