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this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2023
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People keep electing fucking imbeciles
Argentines have been suffering miserably for decades and that is with parties from both the left and the right. They've all been useless. There is literally no one else to vote for.
But now you're choosing the con-artists who will prey on that fact to sell you lies and false promises, and when all is said and done you will be lucky to still have a democracy, let alone solutions. Both Trump and Bolsonaro tried to overthrow their government when the citizens realized they were frauds and kicked them out. Still, somehow, your elected leader supports them. Don't expect any different.
But the US and Brazil both made the same mistakes, so don't take it personal. Learn for yourselves. But try to be vigilant enough not to lose your democracy in the process, because there's no going back after that.
Argentinian here, he's not great but fucking believe me theyre the best candidate amongst all other 4 that are all supporters of the practices that put us in this decadence.
An ultra right wing populist is usually the worst choice. It's always the fascists who blame the other parties.
It's funny you say that because that's what the current and previous government (both left governments) are doing
So by that logic as long as a candidate doesn't support the "practices that put us in this decadence" they are good enough to vote for?
If this guy would be in favor of rounding up all gay people and shooting them, would you still vote for him? What about making it illegal for women to do paid work? What about shutting down all newspapers? If he proposed those things, would you still think he's the best candidate?
If not, then where is your line? Because to me he already seems pretty fucking extreme.
You can also not vote or cast a voto en blanco as a protest. Why not do that instead of vote for a Trump / Bolsonaro type person? Do you think they were successful presidents who made things better in the US / Brazil?
The fuck are you on about? First off, if those were his actual proposals of course he wouldnt be the best candidate, but want to know something? All other candidates have NO PROPOSALS, AND IM NOT EXAGGERATING, Rodriguez Larreta's is the current Governor of Buenos Aires, his campaing literally had not a single proposal, all others have nothing concrete either, Massa is the current Minister of Economy and he's supposedly gonna fix the economy ONLY IF WE VOTE HIM PRESIDENT??? Milei is literally the only candidate that has spoken out loud what they will do
But wanna know whats actually extreme, DO YOU WANT TO KNOW? The candidates that support these practices are all compliant of the current government, GOVERNMENT THAT LET THOUSANDS OF ARGENTINES DIE OF COVID while they held the vaccines for the Political Class, had Parties during Lockdown and arrested citizens that only wanted to mourn their beloved ones. Furthermore they attacked the monument made in honor of the ones that died during the pandemic
He's Anti Left, likes a dumbass and is Anti Abortion, AND WHAT? That Last Law was approved like 4 Years ago DESPITE THE ENTIRE COUNTRY manifesting against, our (corrupt) politicians turned their back to the people who voted them, while he ran for Senate, for his campaign promised that his Salary would be raffled back to the people and guess what, he complied and continues to stand by what he was voted for
Argies are not stupid, EVERYONE knows whats going on with the Politics of the Left here, and we're Angry, our people is dying of hunger, bussiness have to close down because of the neck choking taxes imposed to support the "Rights for the people" from a Government making net red numbers every day to keep the working people powerless and the poor eating the trash they hand them to barely keep them alive so they continue to vote for them
“Argies are not stupid, EVERYONE knows whats going on “
Yes, they are and no, they don’t.
Just like EVERY country that suffered under incompetent and corrupt rule and gravitated to “change”.
I get it. Hell it’s be far not the first time Argentina has been in economic crisis. It’s a rational reaction with a reasonable basis that ignores the likely consequences.
That’s the point being made here - you want different, but is he actually better? Populist gestures like “he gave his salary away” mean he’s getting paid via other means. By whom? Why?
I get it - you’re sick of the status quo and he’s expressing the outrage you feel.
Good luck, really. I love BA and hope it works out.
Aced it. Milei's following can't be reasoned with. They are pretty much like that other world power that almost had a coup. God save us.
Excuse me but mind pointing at whatever specific thing I may have said is unreasonable off my participation on this whole thread?
Furthermore mind explaining to me how is it unreasonable to Vote for the Guy with a Wig-Looking Hair that's done nothing wrong Politically when the other runner ups are a Drunk Terrorist (Bullrich), A Politician that sucks the dick of whoever is at Power to keep himself rich while proven completely useless in Charge (Massa), A LizardMan that opresses the workers with Police brutality and allows his paid supportive trope to disrupt peace on the streets (Larreta) and Juan Grabois (Self explanatory)
And finally, if you are Argentine yourself, please "Rescatate loco"
To the first, saying we are not stupid is obviously a generalization, of course there are but its far from everyone being stupid, our education is poor and has only gotten worse with the current Government (by a myriad of reasons, really) but you saying they dont know what happens is straight up wrong. I do mean EVERYONE knows it, ask ANYONE om the street, on the internet any argentinian WILL KNOW but what they respond depends on how they live, because this government PAYS the people to rally and support them with Tax Money, They pay them to live like shit and vote them when time comes, they are their only sustain because the government is killing the Economy and all of the citizen's possibilities, like I said, to keep themselves in Power
And also, I get your concern for his financing, but unlike all other Political candidates, he has actually had a Job not related to Politics on the past, and he gives speeches where he teaches economics as it is his Mayor, is a Writer and generally a "celebrity" lately. I cannot deny if a certain interest institution finances him, but I can sure confirm his opponents are
I get it man but accept that opting for worse in the pursuit of change is not a solution.
To a large degree that’s what led people to vote for Trump - he was independent (not actually), self-financed (big nope) and an outsider (incompetent clown). Not saying this guy is akin to Trump but are you certain enough of that to still support him?
Argentina’s history has enough heartbreak and man this guy sure smells like a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Maybe he’s really not. Maybe his heart is in the right place. That’s a big maybe.
Ok at this point I do not understand why you think he's worse, while everything I've explained is why he's the better candidate amongst the trashcan all 4 Others are (other chain of comments, sorry if you didnt read them), and there being no more viable options. Why do you think he's worse? Just because hes a Far Right? Because he expresses sentiment to bad ideologies? If any of that is true, i'd let you know the guys in the Blue side praise Chinese overlords and Russian leaders, the guys in Yellow there's nothing wrong im aware of but they've already been in the Government, doing nothing good to it and only proving they are part of the problem, despite that they are the ones I voted for on this round of Election in subject. Milei is a MAYBE he's not bad, all others are FOR SURE BAD
If it is because some of his personnel ideas are surely gonna be pushed, hell as long as the good ideas are (which are majority), we urgently need them, we can deal with his shitty side later
I get you may be thinking with experience in hand of The Hell Trump instated on the US being a far Right, but im telling you from current experience of the Hell the Left has instated in Argentina for GENERATIONS
You're right - I think but do not know he's worse and it's due to the global pattern of totalitarianism that the Right has embraced. I fear Argentina falling into that trap by electing a populist today that refuses to cede power tomorrow.
If he's the least bad option that's a commentary of the politics there and perhaps your conclusion is justified, I simply don't know enough about them to say, but a meh known quantity appeals more to me than a personable extremist.
With all respect, is defeatism the best way to choose leadership? Far Right is in an of itself disqualifying to me because I strongly oppose their stated policy positions so I'm certainly not objective.
Im not familiar enough with the term "Defeateism" to be sure on my answer, but just from Google definition, It is rather the only way Argentines have to vote, but this time there's at least hope since Milei is conpletely New, past Elections were completely defeateism as all candidates were already in power and were for sure bad, it was picking your poison 100%
I'd even say that the biggest driving factor for Milei's success is that he's new.
By the way, you said how you dont want Argentina to fall under totalitarism with a Populist that refuses to cede Power, you are describing exactly Kristina Fernandez on 2015 who refused to even stand in the same room to pass the Symbols of Power to the elected opossition Mauricio Macri, time again a Left Politician
She may have rudely skipped the ceremonial handoff but she ceded power. That’s a far cry from refusing to which is the threat I meant.
No she didnt ced the Power, justice had to intervene and a Provisional President (that lasted 12 hours) had to do it instead of her, good thing our constitution explicitly extinguishes Presidential Power the exact moment the clock hits 00:00 their last day of charge, or else?
I know that you meant something more serious, but to our constitution there isnt more serious than this
I did not know she actually refused. Dick move but smart for the constitution to stipulate that.
You're right - I think but do not know he's worse and it's due to the global pattern of totalitarianism that the Right has embraced. I fear Argentina falling into that trap by electing a populist today that refuses to cede power tomorrow.
If he's the least bad option that's a commentary of the politics there and perhaps your conclusion is justified, I simply don't know enough about them to say, but a meh known quantity appeals more to me than a personable extremist.
With all respect, is defeatism the best way to choose leadership? Far Right is in an of itself disqualifying to me because I strongly oppose their stated policy positions so I'm certainly not objective.
He's going to make it worse. Guaranteed. Look at literally every fucking other country run by people like this.
So we are supposed to keep voting the Politicians that are ACTUALLY killing us, that are ACTUALLY getting us more debt everyday, that are ACTUALLY putting in power of all of their friends to guarantee their richness, that are ACTUALLY making it harder and harder to leave the country while they sail around the world for their vacations? That are ACTUALLY making it worse?
Instead of the guy that has done many things right just because he kinda likes another country's asshole?
FUCK THAT, is essentially what this elections result means
Voting a fucking fascist in fucking power is not the fucking answer.
He will give you a 1 month high. You will feel like you're taking your country "back" and "making it great again". For 1 month. Maybe 2. Then it will not get better because fucking fascists don't have fucking answers or fucking solutions. All they have is blaming.
So when shit doesn't get better, what this fucking fascist will do is find some vulnerable minority or some people who do a serious non-dumb job and blame them. The gays. The indigenous. The judges. The leftist students. The scientists. The people who like to eat their salad with the wrong color tomatoes. Some made up shit.
And he will convince you that it's those people's fault that his bullshit anarcho-capitalist non-policies don't work. So he will need you to support him to hurt those people more and more and more so he can anarcho-capitalism harder. Promising that if you hurt the right people enough then it will be all right.
But it won't because there is no fucking magic and fucking fascists don't have fucking answers to any fucking problem.
Don't be a stooge for fascists.
Good luck.
This is what the current guys are doing bro, have you lived here?
You are spot on, we should not vote fascists into Power because they will not fix the problems, they will blame others for their incompetence and they will get in our ears we should support them more for enabling them to actually fix those problems and they will persecute the opposition calling them the problem.
For sure you dont know but you are describing the current government, the previous and all of it's candidates in this elections
While Milei has yet to even have that power, he's done nothing more than what he promised and what he was voted for in congress, in the span of 2 Years hes started his Political Career
And for sure he wont fix them either, this shit is deep and wont go away in just 4 Years, but if he doesnt fucking start the change he proposes, and we need, we will vote someone else, if anyone even exists thats not the same politics again
We're tired of bad. Lets give worse a go!
So what you're saying is that you didnt read a single line, because if the worse of actual Killers, Robbers and (convicted) Criminals is a Guy with a Wig and a questionable Economics Book then you got a hell of a definition of "worse"
OK but my question still remains: where is the line for you? Because I think it's fair to say that he would want to make abortion illegal, abolish sexual education in its current form, and let terrible things happen to the environment because he doesn't believe in climate change.
Those things are apparently not enough for you because you still say he's the best candidate. Maybe you disagree, but I think it would be terrible if women lost their right to a safe abortion or if children wouldn't receive sex education.
Why not cast a voto en blanco? Just because other politicians are worse doesn't mean you have to vote for Milei.
You say Argentines aren't stupid and I agree. Americans and Brazilians are also not stupid. But how did far-right populist presidents work out for them?
I'm not saying the current politicians in power are good, but why support this asshole just because he opposes who you oppose?
The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend, it could just be another enemy.
He has actually commented on all of this manners, about Abortion he said he personally doesnt care, but he's an advocate that the pass of the law was done against the People's Will (as I previously mentioned) so he'd call a Referendum on the law to revalue it and of course it will be the people's will if it dissapears or not.
Climate Change? Sexual Education? For sure his views are problematic and I do not support his beliefs on that, but HELL MAN. People is DYING here either lf hunger or injustice, we need those fixed AND HES THE ONLY ONE WITH PROPOSALS ADDRESSING THOSE. Current government has FREED PRISONERS OF RAPE AND ASSASINATION because "they may die of covid in prison" Im sure as shit not voting them. Whatever he passes thats shitty we can fix later
There's no clear limit, absolutes are never good, but id say being shitty as a whole is a reasonable limit
Edit: Adding to why not cast a Voto en Blanco, is because in Argentina the final election percentage of votes dont count Voto en Blanco, meaning that the total amount of votes thats part of the percentage is tinier the more Voto en Blanco there is, which means actual votes comform a greater part of the percentage, this results in Voto en Blanco giving more election power to actual Votes. Here is a saying that "The White Vote is a Vote in favour of the Most Voted" and it is technically correct. Due to the people that live off the government there will always be votes for them no matter how bad they are, if everyone for Javier Milei decided to vote in white instead, itll just make the other candidates percentage of vote grow not only making them win, but als look like 60% of the voters chose them
Fascism has worked out so well for you folks in the past right?
Do you mean the one-sided anti-democratic De Facto governments that persecuted opposition and killed thousands?
Or do you mean Peronisn the democratically elected fascist-ideology government that persecuted and killed oppositors while instated Laws to keep themselves in Power, which is the Ideology current government and Officialist candidates praise?
Either way, what either of those things have to do with Javier Milei's Right, Democracy-enforcing proposed government?