390
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 24 Nov 2024
390 points (96.9% liked)
politics
19223 readers
2506 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Yeah that'll happen when your populace is largely morons who vote for someone who proposed tariffs as a way to lower prices. Yep always the evil Democrats causing everyone to be such morons.
The same people that boycotted a better deal because they weren't able to understand 1/3 > 1/4.
Education important. School good.
No, you’re wrong to blame the voters.
Dems could have ran a candidate that appealed to voters, but instead opted for the same corporate shills as always. Dems could have campaigned on massively popular populist policies like paid family leave, raising the minimum wage, or Medicare for all - things which would directly improve the material living conditions of the working class. Their donors didn’t allow them to, and their corruption ensured their obedience. Once again, not learning the lesson, and once again, losing in historic fashion.
Didn't read this. I will always blame people who revel in ignorance and destroy their country for the love of ignorance
As in, ignorance of popular policies and effective messaging being necessary to win an election?
Ok, but admittedly, they can't beat a bunch of morons. It's shameful. You should be embarrassed for supporting these impotent hacks.
It would appear that what you advocate for would be even more beneficial to the bunches of morons. What's more embarrassing and impotent than giving up?
Giving up what? The dems were never more poised then they were this election to end trump for good. They failed. There is no comeback. They haven't even done the work to figure out where they went wrong. They are a sunk cost and for you to put your political energy into this party is a complete waste.
Welcome to the decent into authoritarianism. The longer it takes you to snap out of this delusion that the dems are going to save you the sooner we can mount a real counter.
All of these nihilistic takes never quite seem to address the elephant in the room, which is that it's easier to score from 3rd base than 1st. You can whine that our politicians don't place our choice issues as their number one because of money, but ignorance of the party that wants to wind the clock back is looming 100% of the time, so your arguments are moot for people living in reality. Objectively, the best thing you can do for improving the party is to vote in Democratic primaries or run for office. Do you think people like Rashida Talib aren't doing enough either? It's funny you mention delusions, as if everyone here is like, "I voted, so I'm done for 2-4 years" while being active on political news. In other words, if anyone is reading your take, it automatically doesn't apply to them.
There are many lessons to be learned for the Democrats here, I think it's too early to tell if they've learned anything. Yelling at them with constructive advice is still more important than doomering on a forum.
Nihilism, to me, is to put faith in the democrats who will lose thier fucking hat to fascists and never feel a bit of shame. That's nihilism.
I've given them 8 fucking years to get their shit together and what happen. Biden who said he wouldn't run again drug his feet and shoved kamala through. That is not strategy, that's a throw. Your fucking insane looking back at this and not seeing how the democrats took the goodwill of kind hearted people only to roll over and die when it mattered most.
I'm pragmatic, I'll always put my vote where it needs to go. I can not give the DNC any ounce of support and I will not be looking for any wins from them any time soon. The damage is done. What the GOP are reaping cannot be undone in 2 years. 4 years. I'd venture 100. Especially when the democrats come out with a showing like this.
"Faith" is clearly the misunderstanding you have here. You don't choose to drive on the right side of the road because you have Faith you'll get home safe, you do it because if you drive head-on into traffic, you'll die. The "Faith" is that the alternative is worse. Are you arguing that the Republicans aren't worse? Or that everyone reading your post voting for a shitty third party that does virtually no local elections would have led to a better outcome? We have no Faith the Democrats will do good, that's why we need to shout at them and improve the party with, perhaps maybe our own membership. Where is that energy better directed oh wise sage?
Your energy is better directed turning others away from the DNC.
How does that make things better in our current climate? You also need to look up what nihilism actually means lol.
Yes our efforts are best spent yelling at clouds
If critisizing political parties is a waste of time youll understand entirely why endlessly criticizing the GOP isn't a legitimate strategy.
What I'm saying is pretty fucking clear. You can recruit 100,000 people to support third parties but until the system changes you're pissing in the wind. I think you know that deep down. But it's probably easier to just blame everyone who won't join your pointless crusade
The system is changing and the faster you abandon the dems the faster we can counter the GOP. I don't give a shit about any parties at this point. Moving forward elections won't be free and fair. You think you're still playing the same game. You can "wait and see" but you're just allowing the disease to spread.
Name even the tiniest shred of evidence something is changing. You seriously just watched fascism voted in and you see that as a fucking positive thing?
I think I'm playing the same game? The game is fucking over, and delusional people like yourself played a role
What the fuck are you even arguing then? The game is over. The longer you cling to the democrats the longer you delude yourself allowing fascism to take hold while giving yourself false hope that the dems will do something.
I don't even know where we are disagreeing anymore. Also, how did I ever play a role lol. You have no fucking clue.
The game is over because of a bunch of morons, some of which thought their protest vote was a good thing
Funny, that's what so many of the "don't vote for Kamala" people were saying people should do before the election.
Were you one of them?
Absolutely not. I had no problem with the anti Genocide stance. It just shouldn't have happened 6 months before such a critical election. I spent all of 2020-2023 trying to get people to realize joe biden would rat fuck us in a heart beat and I was met with the same resistance I'm getting right now.
I guess everyone gets to be ignorant and perpetuate their own oppression but some one has to be out here doing the right fucking rhing.
You're not getting my point. Every single election cycle there's this online contingency saying "we must fight the DNC." Cool. Let me know when it actually happens. I'm guessing right before all the people who say everyone needs to vote third party to teach the DNC a lesson get that one right.
This is different. I would never advocate for any existing third party. Your point is moot because what happens from here won't be anything like before. It will have all the trappings but when it's time for a free and fair election people are going to freak when they see the results. My argument is, why wait for it? How many years have we already wasted and invested into a party they is not functional. Even if things stay how they are the DNC is a sunk cost and they proved it by losing to trump now, when it mattered most. Trump, the shittyist candidate I've ever witnessed in my entire life.
It's always going to be different this time. And I would like to point out that there is a word for doing the same things over and over again and expect a different results.
Also, I'm not sure why you are assuming there will be elections at all anymore unless you're talking about the kinds they have in places like Russia and Belarus, in which case it's the DNC that's moot here.
My fucking brain just broke, are you arguing against me anymore?
That's what I'm saying, the DNC is moot, stop supporting it so people arent fooled into believing in 2026 they will "wipe the floor" blah blah blah. All that rhetoric is a waste of time. Democrats need to see they are generally accepted as the joke that lost an entire to trump the circus clown and everyone else needs to start feeling urgency to act, ASAP.
And do what exactly?
Brah, I hate this part, because you're supposed to be able to dismiss me now because I don't have every fucking detail planned out. Just what you're asking of me is so absurd. Im not the leader of the revolution I am the guy ringing the alarm bell. There are certainly things I would do but you don't really care about that. You're just fishing for another argument that you don't like that you can dismiss and "win the conversation."
I didn't ask for every detail. A general overall picture would be nice. I'm not "supposed to be able" to do anything. You're making an argument that the DNC needs to act. And now you're getting upset that you're being asked what actions they are supposed to take.
That's beyond "I'm just the ideas person here" territory.
I do think the DNC should act, they should do a number of things. Prove to me that you give a shit about ideas before I waste my time educating you.
How, beyond asking you three times now including this time, am I supposed to prove that to you?
Or is that another question you're going to refuse to answer?
There is a concept in improv called "yes and." When you are out on stage, or practicing, doing improv, rejecting someone's idea can be jarring for the audience and the performers. For instance, as an improv preformer you go up and say, "here we are, on the moon." Then another preformer comes up and says, "no no no, were at a mcdonalds." The problem with the other performer saying, "were not on the moon we are in a McDonald's" isn't that McDonald's is less funny; or that being at a McDonalds in more accurate. The problem is the negative feelings needlessly brought up just because the other performer had a different idea. Then, they decided that their idea was better, or good, based only on the fact that they thought of it.
The negative feelings are just part of it. Obviously, the audience might be a bit confused but it's improv they can suspend disbelief for a second. The performer might be jarred because they had one idea that got shit canned publicly but it was just a random thought, they can move past it. The problem is when the other preform keeps doing it, right?
"OK we're at McDonald's, I'm going to order a coke "
"No, this McDonald's serves pepsi."
You get the point.
What "yes and" does is acknowledges someone's personhood while giving you license to be just as influential. This is called collaboration.
So now, we have two performers, one says, "here we are on the moon" and the other says, "At the McDonalds you won't shut up about."
That's it.
If you wanted to know my ideas for what's next. This is it.
We collaborate. Until we are all really fucking good at it.
Your answer to my question on what their actions should be is to "collaborate." That's not a political action, it's a way to achieve it. It says nothing about what they're supposed to do in the face of democracy being over and America becoming a fascist dictatorship in less than two months.
You are not discussing this in good faith and you clearly don't have an actual answer, so I'm done.
Lol, there it is.