Comradeship // Freechat

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felipeforte@lemmygrad.ml

China should take down the great firewall, let millions of Chinese swarm the western internet and show them what real freedom of speech is like (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 weeks ago by AmerikaLosesWW3@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Maybe but includes more scalable societies including whole nations and alliance of nations, and censorship could be de facto or de jure.

The choice to opt in and out depends on the class perspective in bourgoisie society; the more subjugated one is the less of a choice that will feel. If one can imagine a censorship in favour of the dictatorship of the bourgoisie then why not in one favor for the dictatorship of the proleteriat?

If a formal censorship is not declared it does not mean an informal does not exist, one which is dictated by class relations within that society (this is itself one of the criticisms against anarchist ideas of post-capitalism ie not based on science but on utopia/idealism of the assumption of lack of formal hierarchies would free mankind's innate nature for freedom or some such Bakunin nonsense. Our nature is in a relationship with nature outside us, each constantly changing the other - ie it is dialectical. )

[–] LeGrognardOfLove@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

You say that informal censorship is always dictated by class relations ?

That's an interesting take.

I always saw echo chambers (what you call informal censorship) as inability to cope with a cognitive dissonance. It's a way to emotionally protect one self from others beliefs.

In more than a way, a semi closed environment like lemmygrad is that, I think.

I don't see it as censorship but more like a way to have constructive conversations about some subjects.

That's an interesting take none the less!

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 5 days ago

The perspectives espoused are relatively new for me; previously how free speech and "propaganda" was understood was influenced by Chomsky's Manufacuring Consent and Parenti's (better written) Inventing Reality. The latter is still a good book but the understanding of how this stuff works has evolved.

We have to sometimes take a step back in order to not overestimate an individual's agency/power over society's class relations (which is really damn hard for us Westerners - not matter the color - because of how much indvidualism is ingrained in our cultures); it is partly why class betrayal is a big thing. Learning dialectics (still learning, to be honest) and this article made a big impact:

https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/

Thanks for engaging and hope you have a good one.