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this post was submitted on 27 Aug 2023
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“Men will be men” just excuses the behaviour and ostracizes men who don’t do these things. It has less to do with their sex and more to do with how we raise men.
Toxic masculinity as a defence mechanism of patriarchal society is the main problem and “feminine”, “emotional” or “weak” men, or those not subscribing to heteronormative sexuality are targeted by the same types to uphold their status.
Yup. It boils down to power imbalances that are systemic in a world where men still control almost everything.
I had always hoped we'd move past this but it seems we may not get the chance now (with climate change raging around us).
Where some men still control almost everything.
Ofc it's not all men, but it's enough men that make everyone's lives harder. So instead of arguing "not all" maybe focus on the some that are the cause of the problem.
I feel like the primary complaint here is that the parent commenters very much want to focus on the some that are the cause of the problem, rather than simply stating that men are problematic.
Yup. If men as a group policed their own there would be a change. But as it stands they don't seem to want to do that all the time because it's easier to just let the bad ones slide through.
What's there to police? It's not like most aggressors are openly grabbing people in their genitals for all to see. These people know that they are wrong and so they hide it. What am I, as a man against this behaviour, supposed to do about other men?
When you hear men joke about what women they're gonna try to f'k, let them know how shitty that is.
When you hear men make sexist jokes, let them know how shitty that is.
When you hear men talk about their wives as somehow less than, let them know how shitty that is.
And if you ever think any of those things in your own mind, remind yourself how shitty that is.
What if you don’t have shitty guy friends who say shitty sexist things?
Then you probably live on the moon.
I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean in this context.
Are you saying that since these were co-workers and not family members that means the woman is lying?
This is actually a great idea! To make things simple perhaps we can give these policing men like.. some form of identification, like a badge or a uniform so people know who to trust. This is the game changer we needed.
I love people that demand respect but can't even give it.
Men will be men is for where men do stupid shit like attach a motor to a merry-go-round and see who can sit on it for the longest or dig holes at the beach because hole.
It’s sad and sickening to see it be used to try and excuse sexual harassment and assault.
Boys will be boys is something frequently said by mothers. But of course that's fact doesn't fit the "patriarchy" narrative.
Or sometimes targeted by their mothers. At least this happened to me. I had one long fingernail(on middle finger, you guessed why) and my mother complauned about it almost every day to the point where she came to dad and complained to him. He said "why do you even care?", but she continued anyway saying "this is not how men do".
This happened in post-Soviet society where average family with children is mother+grandmother, so it has nothing to do with "patriarchality" of society. I think it is just manifestation of much broader problems: virtual majority and I can't translate it, but basicaly "you should do it this way because I said so".
Bro. I'm a man. I have hormones. I also know how to control them.
"Men will be men" is an unfair generalization.
Because we have allowed this behavior to be acceptable, we have excused it with cute phrases like, “men will be men.”
It is not always men. I am a man and I have been sexually assaulted by a woman.
Nice to see everything is moving over from Reddit.
Still its a fucking low amount of men. Its not men at large. It's these specific criminally abusive individuals.
Which one is it? Always men, or not always men?
Statistically it's men like 90% of the time.
Source?
Here's an ABS nedia release that claims 97% of sexual assault offenders are male: https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/97-cent-sexual-assault-offenders-are-male
So i'd say it very reasonable to say gender is the #1 indicator for whether someone will commit sexual crimes. (Also note that if you look into murder, assault, child abuse etc, all of these are similarly one sided. It's mostly males who do these things.)
Welk, that sucks :/
This screams "all lives matter"
No it doesn't. The term "Black Lives Matter" doesn't exclude other people's lives from mattering so responding with the term "All Lives Matter" is weird.
In this case we are blindly labeling billions of people as being problematic when there is obviously some nuance.
I really hate the "men will be men" argument. Real men don't rape or sexually harass people.
this thinking removes the sexual harasser's & rapist's responsibility for their crimes and moves it to their gender/DNA.
When criminal conduct is enabled, crime will escalate.
And saying not all men gives every man an excuse in their mind as to why they don't need to do anything about the problem with their peers.
Yes! It absolves men of their responsibility to make their society/community safe and it ensures that if they become a problem then other men will not stop them.