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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

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[-] RGB3x3@lemmy.world 202 points 1 year ago

They're already doing that, have been for a long time. I have a Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn't real Christianity...

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 78 points 1 year ago

I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.

[-] Pat12@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

I had a Catholic coworker who said some of her Catholic relatives were becoming “Christians”, which turned out to mean Evangelicals.

in the US they refer to Protestants as "Christians", mainstream Christianity is made up of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Right—my point is that my coworker (like the previously-mentioned Baptist) was implying that Catholics were distinct from Christians, in spite of being Catholic herself.

[-] klemptor@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

I was raised Catholic and the distinction was always made between Catholics and Christians. I didn't really understand that Catholics were a subtype of Christians until someone pointed it out to me when I was a teenager - I just thought Christians was a catch-all term for non-Catholics that believed in jesus.

[-] bluebooby@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

What country were you raised in? I was raised Catholic in the Philippines and in the US and it was made explicitly clear in my education that Catholics are Christian.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I'm from Ohio and there is a massive Catholic community in my hometown and "Christian" as a term was always used as a throwaway term for the various non-denominational evangelical sects.

Catholics and Protestants do not get along, even today. When I went to college and people thought I grew up Catholic, they would try to "convert" me away from "ancestor worship and idolatry."

[-] bluebooby@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the insight. Honestly the nerve of some people...

[-] eestileib@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

My father made that exact distinction and he grew up in Iowa.

[-] bluebooby@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

In the US I grew up in LA, California so I think I'm understanding the pattern now.

[-] klemptor@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

I'm from New Jersey

[-] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago

Baptist coworker who thinks Catholicism isn't real Christianity...

I've seen a lot of that and not just recently.

[-] Iamdanno@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

All religions think all other religions are not "real", because of their "There can be only one!" Highlander shit.

[-] dartos@reddthat.com 24 points 1 year ago

I think all religions are just fake copycats of the one true god.

Praise be Flying Spaghetti Monster

[-] NotYourSocialWorker@feddit.nu 16 points 1 year ago

I mean, most protestant Christians dislike Catholicism, that's why they are called protestants after all.

The new part is American evangelicals and other extremists thinking that catholicism not being conservative enough...

[-] root_beer@midwest.social 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Conservative Protestants have been saying that for a very long time though. The attitude is so pervasive that my wife, who grew up Catholic (but has not been one for decades), has to be reminded that Catholics are Christians.

[-] njm1314@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Not for nothing but that claim is hardly new. Goes back to the Reformation.

[-] Sicktatties@discuss.online 9 points 1 year ago

To be fair, it isnt; but then neither is Evangelicism or Mormonism or any of these other wackadoo cults within which these assholes conflate their hatred and fear with faith.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago

What makes Catholicism fake Christianity in your view? Any faith that believes Jesus Christ is the Son of God that died for the sins of humankind meets the threshold, imo. The Catholic Church fits comfortably within that definition.

[-] Sicktatties@discuss.online 29 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If I were being charitable I’d label these heretical creeds as Paulity. They have very little to do with the words and deeds of Christ, or living up to them, and far more to do with how Saul of Tarsus interpreted them.

You may recall the Catholic Church was born out of the first Nicaean Council, where they canonized the four gospels that best reinforced the idea of the supremacy of the Roman state, and burned the hundreds of other so-called “gnostic” gospels, which (judging by the content of the few that survived) far better encapsulate what I would consider “real Christianity”.

That said, the whole “No True Scotsman” fallacy really isn’t worth pursuing. It’s been this way since 325 CE, and there really is no painting a happy face on one of the most destructive and inhumane ideologies history has to offer. No matter what my opinion may be, you are correct in pointing out that the Paulity is the institution that is currently regarded as “Real Christianity”, as sick and anti-Christian as it may be.

[-] severien@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

All Christians use some interpretation of Bible and Christ.

From the outsiders it's a bit funny to observe these squabbles and the heretic accusations.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

You may recall the Catholic Church was born out of the first Nicaean Council, where they canonized the four gospels that best reinforced the idea of the supremacy of the Roman state, and burned the hundreds of other so-called “gnostic” gospels, which (judging by the content of the few that survived) far better encapsulate what I would consider “real Christianity”.

I believe you are mistaken. That was next big council. The 27 books were finalized by a man who attended the Nicaean Council. When he got back he wrote a letter stating which books he considered to be canon.

[-] Bdtrngl@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Well there is all that child sex abuse.

[-] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

That is an institutional failing of the Catholic Church, it was never endorsed as a part of the Church’s dogma. While I would encourage any Catholic to ask themselves if they really should continue to support an organization that hasn’t done even close to enough to reckon with their many sins over the past two millennia, I still think it’s silly to act like they’re not Christian.

[-] Bdtrngl@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Fucking kids ≠ following the teachings of Jesus in my book.

[-] SCB@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This is also how the Catholic Church sees it.

[-] cloudpunk@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Well then you can include baptists in that too.

[-] HubertManne@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago

the only difference between the priests and pastures is the "born again" churches do not have a central structure to follow up on it so they are all just one offs.

[-] rambaroo@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

There's a ton of it in protestant churches too. The national Baptist church is under federal investigation for it right now. The US has always had an easier time hating Catholics.

[-] atempuser23@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

It’s hard to imagine now , but Catholics were not considered Christians and it was ok to openly discriminate against them. I know of people fired for that. People still try and convert me to ‘Christianity’ and claim all sorts of stuff.

The KKK and Nixon were vocally against’Papists’

[-] Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

To be fair, even the super conservative Catholics aren’t into this pope. Benedict was their jam.

[-] iHUNTcriminals@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There a whole YouTube channel by some ex fox host called church militant... It's all about hating gays and lesser religions. They talk shit about the Pope all the time.

It's like everything in America is just power struggles, selfishness, greed, and crime. There's no God or respect for life here. The "good guys" don't even go after the "bad guys" because the bad guys are ahead now. People are so naive here they think heartless crimes are not happening when it's right under their nose. Sometimes the good guys even get used in the plot. Just look at all the old politicians and Americans that got roped in Rogers stones mob puppeting of Trump. America had a mob affiliate for president. I think that puts in stone... Americas bullshit. It's going to take decades to get trust and genuine patriotism back.

[-] Cerbero@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I wonder where do they think it all comes from?

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Even when I was one I had zero interest in that game.

this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
1780 points (98.1% liked)

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