this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2025
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I would hope that it goes without saying that if a man rapes a woman, ... he is responsible for choosing to commit that horrific act, and he should be held accountable...
But apparently this does not go without saying, given the number of comments I've recieved who are reading this as me blaming rape onnother women via I guess some kind of transitive property of guilt or blame.
At least you actually posed your comment as a question.
...
I am saying that hurt people hurt people, that people who have been hurt, or traumatized, tend to be more likely to lash out at others, or develop some kind of more permanent maladjusted world view / behavioral patterns / moral framework.
I am also not saying that people who have had bad things happen to them... that does not give anyone some kind of free pass to then do bad things to other people.
People have agency, they are responsible for their decisions and actions.
Their prior trauma does not absolve them from that responsibility, but it may at least partially explain their behavior.
There is a difference between a potential part of a complex explanation ... and an excuse.
...
In my comments leading up to your response, I have not simplistically assigned specific blame values to each particular person involved in each specific situation that falls into this general category of situations.
I have simply described percieved phenomena.
There is a difference between looking at how systemic problems and patterns emerge... and making a moral judgement on every person and action in that complex web of interactions.
...
It is a widely accepted concept within the field of psychology that certain, often fairly easily identifiable risk factors, can identify people likely to develop, or be part of diagnosing someone as currently having some kind of mental disorder... as well as who may be more likely to behave or act out in certain ways in the future.
If anything, I am suggesting that perhaps young enlisted men who have recently been broken up with should receive some kind of regular psych screening, counselling, therarpy, something like that.
It is a pretty widespread phenomena that when someone feels unfulfilled in a relationship, or betrayed by a partner, they will lash out by cheating, having an affair... pursuing some kind of sexual interaction with someone else.
Note about CNM
(for the above paragraph, i want to carve out or caveat that this is leaving aside consistent, consensual polyamorous / ethical nonmonogamous relationships, which certainly do exist, but constitute a small minority of American sexual relationships within the population as a whole... best I can tell, at any given point in time, only about 5% of Americans are actually, currently involved in a CNM relationship... more people express interest in potentially having such an arrangement, or have been in such an arrangement at one point in their lives... but the point I am trying to make is that the vast majority of people act within the traditional personal and social framework of monogamy, the vast majority of the time.)
In a situation of confinement, where people cannot leave a fairly small and defined area, like a military base... and these people are also just generally in a high stress environment...
Well, that confined environment means the women in it are going to be the ones that are the most likely victims of any such unstable men, especially if they outrank them.
Again... I would assign the moral blame, the legal blame, the personal 'you should have control of yourself and are responsible for your actions' blame to the men that actually perpetrate the act...
But at the same time, if my theory here holds water, then you could potentially reduce SA against female service members by keeping better track of male service members with regular pysch check-ins and therapy... also perhaps, and I am completely serious: just give all the guys fleshlights or onaholes or something.
I am interested in potential harm reduction at a large scale, not moralizing.
I guess I should also note I did posit this whole idea as a theory, a theory I believe is likely valid to some extent, but nonetheless should actually be, you know, tested, verified, by maybe compiling case files on SA in the military and seeing how many of the men had been having relationship problems with their partner prior to their SA, checking that against how many men had been having relationship problems and did not SA anyone, etc.
Rape does not happen because of sexual frustration. This long ass comment shows absolutely no understanding of the dynamics or causes of sexual abuse.
You wrote something shitty and are writing a novel to justify your terrible and malformed opinion.
Your homework tonight is to pick up Andrea Dworkin’s Intercourse or Susan Brownmiller’s Against Our Will, and to shut the fuck up about sexual assault. This is not a topic you are educated enough to speak on.
That is an insane, absolutely bullshit statement to make, that definitively and absolutely.
Many, many criminologists, sociologists, psychologists, who look into the causes of rape, who interview or otherwise assess male rapists... they come away with a theory that there are multiple factors that go into what makes a male more or less likely to commit rape... and the level of sexual frustration (ie the idea that they need/deserve more sex than they are able to have) of the male is a major factor in nearly all of them.
The attitude that Dworkin describes of men engaging in sex with women in a power imbalanced scenario... that actually meshes with the concept of sexual frustration as a causal factor of rape, and post-rape justifications, it does conflict with it or negate it.
The extreme levels of sexual frustration experienced/reported by some men are arguably only even possible in the world with the normalized attitudes Dworkin describes, where sex is framed as and excersized as a game of unbalanced power dynamics, or a method of enforcing them.
Here is Dworkin herself:
Men who believe they are owed sex, who believe they are entitled to it, and that they are justified to pursue it without consent... that mindset literally is extreme sexual frustration.
...
Here's a good review of several different causal model theories of rape/sexual violencd:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/342143827_Theories_That_Explain_Sexual_Aggression_Against_Women
You can measure the number of men who strongly feel that entitlement, that rage, that idea that they are correct when they take it forcibly... and many have done this and published studies on it.
Here are some that specifically delve into sexual frustration as a major factor, with many citations within them of similar, prior papers.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4491036/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0047235221000854
...
A whole, whole lot of extreme and violent behavior, done by men, is seen by the scientific community to have sexual frustration, unfufilled sexual desires, as a major element of a patchwork of causal factors... not just rape.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/10887679221106975
...
Even just generally speaking, you can see that a common, broadly accepted symptom of being sexually frustrated is:
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/sexually-frustrated#symptoms
...
I do not know why, or even how, you can read Dworkin and somehow come away with the idea that sexual frustration has nothing to do with rape.
I really just do not understand.
As for Brownmiller... yes, I generally agree that as a societal phenomenon or 'institution', male rape of women does constantly intimidate women, and that patriarchal societies tend to have double standards when it comes to legally convicting men of, and protecting women from rape.
It was very historically impactful in getting the ball rolling on making rape conviction standards less ludicrous...
...but, looking back from 50 years later, the claims of hers that extend from her 'observation' that rape does not occur amongst animals... this is now known to be false; many, many animals have been observed engaging in rape... though I guess you could credit Brownstone with getting the ball rolling on more biologists looking into that as well.
Not OP, but pretty sure science is moving away from all rape and sexual assault being about power and that a good chunk of it is related to sexual frustration.
Sexual assaults go down when porn is available:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178909000445
So, there have to be things we can do at a societal level to reduce the sexual frustration of young men. I don't know what.
Rather incredible of andros to arrogantly assign me homework I've already read a decade ago... which are books from ~40 to ~50ish years ago...
Whilst seemingly being totally oblivious of the last 10, 20 years of actual peer reviewed scientific inquiry into this.
Novel inbound, I've been working to understand this phenomenon while recovering from an injury. Not sleeping, haven't been able to be physically active, mentally screwy from it.
Yeah, it's unfortunate. I'm still trying to understand some of the far left fanaticism I'm seeing on Lemmy. I think a lot of it is sheltered kids who don't have much exposure to real life. (Kids being under 30).
Let me preface this by saying that I'm an egalitarian when it comes to feminism. (I can't be bothered to try and figure which redefinition of feminism/egalitarianism I am, I know egalitarian can be a weasel word for misogyny). Like, a crack team of militant feminists take over the government and install a council of wise black granny ladies, I'm totally down, we would be much better off.
Anyhow, OP is so stereotypically misandrist that they hurt the cause they claim to be an expert on. All those old shitty boomer bra burning jokes.
OP may also have experienced trauma, bless their heart, and be in a bad place. It can't feel good to be that twisted up.
Haven't looked through their post history, but, the willful obtuseness and preachy fervor is right out of the Tankie style guide. No clue if OP is a Tankie, but, the behaviour is spot on. It's also very similar to MAGAts and Qs, though those don't require doctrinal adherence like the Tankies do. Fundamental Evangelical Christians and Fundamental Muslims are like this as well.
So, I think I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of this is brainwashed kids. Some are sheltered western kids, some are eastern and have not been exposed, much, to western leftist culture.
They are all profoundly resistant to logic, adherence to doctrine is emotion based.
It's pretty fucking weird. My online discussion experience is BBSs - Slashdot - Reddit - Lemmy. I haven't seen this on the left before other than occasional isolated individuals.
Dark days ahead. I'm making it a point to check the source of anything inflammatory, right or left. Especially if it makes me angry or upset. So much of it is bullshit and the real scary stuff is dry executive orders.
Not only do I agree with what you're saying, I as well have too much free time from becoming maimed... my fulltime job is basically doing PT at home right now.
But uh yeah, yep, there are a good number of just blindly ideological 'tankie-likes' on the left as well.
I've seen it online for longer than you have and yeah... there are tons and tons of youtube compilation videos of Zoomers and younger women just having entirely lost the feminist plot and become misandrists, and then that gets piped into younger men, who think that feminism just is misandry, and thus hate it, and then compilations of men saying that get piped into young women's feeds...
A mutually reinforcing extremism loop with no discernable defusal mechanism, where both sides scream at the other one that they started it, and demand that its the other's responsibility to stop it.
Basically uh, yep, we're doomed untill everyone can kick their permaonline corporate social media addictions, but almost no one can.
Welcome to technofeudalism, hypercapitalism.
Getting old fucking sucks and no one should ever do it. This morning, I was able to take a walk and check my groundhog traps today without hyperventilating and didn't have to lay down after. (Pest control, I hate doing it but they dug under foundations in the barn and garage.)
Yippie kai aye, rereading Accelerando. Surprisingly, still pretty accurate. It gives me a little hope. More genocide in this world, however.
I tried very hard to pull friends and family out of the Q/MAGAt hole and failed completely. I have no good ideas on how to defuse either.
I've been having a gut feeling, over the last few days, that chump is going to pull some shit soon that is too outrageous for even the rest of the fascists or the corpos running them. Shutting down Voice of America, the tariffs, scaring immigrants away from all the farms and factories. He'll be removed by the cabinet and Vance will back off the outrage and concentrate on financial pillaging and consolidating power. We'd still be pretty fucked, but hopefully we'd slide into a balkanization with only limited violence.
I still have some hope.
I am a bit younger... and my PT is going well.
I ended up homeless for 2 years because my delusional QAnon family decided that actually I was the insane one, and tried to commit me to an institution.
Seeing as almost everyone I used to know either couldn't be bothered to help, or were Maggats themselves...
As soon as I can get back to a reasonable level of mobility and dexterity, I would very much like to get out of this collapsing hellhole of a country...
... but, I likely still have 3 to 6 months left to go on the recovery, its possible things could change for the slightly better, or its also possible some kind of catch 22 or catastrophic event could functionally doom me.
... So I just focus on PT, and occasionally arguing on the net.
I've been fortunate enough to not be homeless except for 6mo of couch surfing when I was 18 and that was mostly just an adventure. I have gone no contact with my entire family and the majority of friends.
I understand a chunk of your pain but not all of it. That's a raw fucking deal you got.
We looked at Canada real hard in 2020, ran the numbers and couldn't do it. Much easier for a single person. High earning couple can do it easy, as well. Back then we made the decision to get out of a red state, saved and planned and moved last summer. Best we could do. Good luck! If you're not bringing a family, I bet you can do it.
I've been in critical condition a couple of times with lengthy hospital stays and long recuperation. You probably won't ever be as good as you were but you'll be surprised at how much you can get back if you work on it.
I reckon my dies are cast on this whole thing, just going to ride it out.
I appreciate your empathy, and well, basically, likewise I think I understand some of what you're going through... before all the insane QAnon bullshit took off, I was actually close with much of my family, and ... I wished I could take the pain out my older relatives with severe arthritis....watched an aunt lose to cancer... and before that a... uncle-in-law? Whatever the word is for the father of my cousins, who I'm not related to.
But uh yeah.
So far my 'split the difference' plan is to get to Minnesota.
Minnesota is ....actually livably affordable on just SSDI, is reasonably blue, borders Canada in case I really need to GTFO... and, long term, if I can stay... well, MN actually is projected to ... basically suffer comparatively significantly less from climate change intensified disasters, so long as you are a decent distance from the Mississippi River.
... Or, all of Social Security gets cancelled and then something like 80 million poor, elderly, and disabled just become homeless and die within a few years, me included.
Oh well. I've now seen violent death up close and personal enough times that I have PTSD, at least it'll be familiar.