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this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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15 billion to private companies to retool and whatever. But then they sell us what they make. None of that goes back to the tax payers.
If you work for someone else in this country you are a joke it seems.
While I agree with your sentiment, ~2/3rds of it according to the article isn't being given to them but being available in loans. So the article should say $5.5 given away, and $10 billion made avaliable to pay back.
Loans are costs too. It's tying up capital that could be used elsewhere
It's more like investment, especially if it saves jobs. It can be a win-win. Companies have it easier time switching to EV manufacturing, which helps those companies and the environment. Manufacturing jobs are saved, both giving a living to a lot of people and helping communities and saving on benefit payments.
Could of course backfire or go to shit but investments like this from states seem like a very wise move imo.
Take loan
Spend it on stock buybacks
Buy a senator or 50
Profit
I wouldn't exactly be surprised if that happens but I'm not pessimistic enough to think it will hah. I'd imagine plenty of them will actually use the money for EV transition since that really is the direction things are going anyway.
I'm not sure that's the case when you're the government and can and do print money. Not every rule of finance applies to the entity that gives credibility to the currency in the first place. This is also why the concept of governmental debt is much less meaningful than the concept of individual debt.
The government is limited in monetary policy by inflation.
Of course, the Petrodollar doesn't really have this problem, but it ends up exporting inflation around the world.
And yet when it comes time to talk about student loans suddenly that the government is broke.
Stopping climate change benefits everyone, including the taxpayers.
This isn't going to put a dent in climate change. It just isn't. Wake me up when we change our stance on Nuclear since that is the only thing that will bolster renewable energy, which is a stop gap.
Furthermore, if the US government actually cared about fighting climate change they would invest in public transportation across the country, making those EV, since they A. Go shorter distances and B. Can carry more people, and they would also tax the shit out of the fossil fuel industry and manufacturing sector for their wonton pollution. It's called internalizing the externalities and it needed to happen 10 years ago. We're so fucked.
EV cars are meant to be powered with green energy, but you need a demand and a supply of that first or you're just powering them with coal instead of oil.
Common myth. Coal makes up a small percentage of power in the US and Europe, and EVs powered by literally anything other than coal (including natural gas) are a net win for the climate over ICE vehicles.
For example, where I live, coal is 3% of the energy mix. Renewables (including hydro) are 42%, and nuclear is 9%.
What's the other 46%?
38% natural gas and the rest "unspecified", probably smaller energy generation projects that don't fit neatly into other categories.
Edit: did some more research and "unspecified" means power imported from other states that didn't document the source of the power.
You realize natural gas is a major contributor to the greenhouse effect, right? When people talk about going to green energy, only the fossil fuel industries pretend gas, or for that matter "clean coal," is part of it.
And sure, it contributes less per kilowatt but the current concerns are that we're either already over the threshold or won't convert in time.
Cool, but that's a whole separate conversation.
An EV powered by 100% natural gas is still a lot better for the climate than an ICE vehicle.
And note that natural gas is a decreasing amount of the energy mix.
OH SHIT, SOMEONE CALL THE SCIENTISTS, THIS DUDE ON THE INTERNET HAS PROVED ALL OF YOU WRONG
Shill detected.
Stopping climate change by...
Removing fossil fuels from the grid? Reducing methane leakage in natural gas transmission? Developing domestic nuclear energy?
Maybe reducing car-dependency to make more efficient use of land and reduce the excessive amounts of taxpayer money being dumped to subsidize suburban development? Reducing inefficient flights between close cities (LAX-SFO, BOS-JFK-DCA)? Building more efficient buildings?
How about taking advantage of the already insanely efficient supply chains in China that allow for the development of sub-10k EVs? Helping those companies launch in the US and bring their expertise with them to accelerate the EV transition like China has?
Nah, let's just give some more money to a few big EV manufacturers, I'm sure that'll fix everything.
More than one thing can happen at the same time.
I'm sorry for shattering your world-view like this.
You realize how much money is going towards EV subsidies? They're extremely inefficient uses of money.
Not nearly enough. We need to be subsidizing them to the level we subsidize oil.
We pay at least twice. Isn't that how it's supposed to be?
(/S)
"oh it's expensive to make electric vehicles so we have to upsell them at 50k+, even though we get government support"
I really want to go electric, but the milage just isn't there yet for me, and add in the charging time and new maintenance routines of swapping out those batteries. I just haven't done enough research.
I don't think there's anything bad with giving the manufacturers money to switch their entire production facilities to electric, I just hope the government actually understands what those funds are being used for, unlike the money they gave our ISPs for infrastructure upgrades that went to waste.
The shells may be similar or the same but inside it would be like asking an apple orchard to change all their trees to oranges, and these funds will help expedite that.
I get 300 mile range and can recharge from 20-80% in under a half hour (a road trip lunch break).
It’s getting there quickly!
Mileage seems fine to me. My gas car gets 260-280 maybe. Electric hits similar numbers.
Charge times are getting pretty low too. 20 minutes is becoming common to hear a new car doing 20-80%. That’s slower than gas but also I’ll only do that in a pinch. Most charging will be at home during the night.
The maintenance differences are a mixed bag though. I think a lot of EVs will be essentially disposed of once the batteries are showing age.
If the phone industry can reach us anything it is manufacturers will make it expensive to change or not make the batteries.
With all that said. Giving car companies money to help them mine rare metals in 3rd world countries, buy motors from China, assemble cars in Mexico and the US…idk how that makes financial sense.
And before anyone tells me the money is only for US plants…I’ll ask you to get real.
Man, I forget how shitty most peoples gas cars are sometimes. 260 miles from a full tank? That’s like 26mpg if you have a 10gallon tank, which is unlikely. My car is 15 years old and gets 40mpg, the hybrids in my household get 50+. How tf do you afford to drive getting mileage like that?
13 gallon but lots of city driving. Also a 2015 so not very old.
I afford it by working from home lol.
How often do you drive more than 100 miles away? People average 33 miles a day in the US and less than 1% of trips are over 100 miles. I would venture to guess almost never. Range is really not much of an issue for 99% of people. The only instances where charge time is an issue is those less than 1% of trips that are over 100 miles.
Maintenance is also not much of an issue. There is significantly less maintenance with an EV. For the battery, they generally hold their charge pretty damn well and most can go 300k miles before their full battery level degrades to 80% of the original range.
Not saying their are not issues because there absolutely are. But the issue with them is affordability and charging infrastructure reliability. At least in the US, we have a mediocre amount of fast charge stations but one of the main providers, Electrify America, has shit reliability. You would think VW, who was forced to build the Electrify America system, would actually want to make it profitable and also use it as PR showing that they have changed. But nope. They treat it like the red headed step child that they were forced to do and resent it. Fuck VW.
This right here. I had a phev that got 30 miles off the battery. If I worked a regular job that would be more than enough especially if I could trickle charge at work.
Maintenance you're spot on and don't forget to account for the intangibles like having to make that appointment for an oil change, etc and then having to either drop the car off or sit around while they do the work. Data coming from years of tesla, prius, etc is showing batteries lasting even longer and holding even more charge than the engineers predicted when designing and testing. I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see evs with 500k+ on the original battery and that's not including some of the cells being repaired or swapped out.
As for charging. In most big cities there are chargers literally everywhere. I run my own livery and work uber, etc so I'm everywhere in my current state. I'm seeing apt complexes put in charging stations backed by Duke Power, I'm also seeing stores like Publix with free charging, simply plug and play versus having to activate it. Parking garages in Charlotte and Greensboro have them including at the airports, Greensboro also has at least one charging setup with a solar canopy for shade. WFU has a ton of free chargers around campus and nearby.
The charging infrastructure has a long way to go but we are miles ahead of where we were just 5 years ago. Those with a house or who can convince a hoa or complex can charge at home and always wake up to a full tank.