Privacy

40805 readers

1920 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
Don't promote proprietary software
Try to keep things on topic
If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
Be nice :)

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

Destroy a Microphone (lemmy.ml)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) by Nino477@lemmy.world to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

41 comments fedilink hide all child comments

During Prime Days I was dumb and bought some Chinese lamp because it was on sale. I gotta say, it’s actually awesome — with the app I can change colors, styles, and so on, and I really like it.

The account creation already bugged me, although I think it was only needed for the first startup. I deleted the account since then. The app is in deep sleep on my phone with zero permissions except Bluetooth.

What really bothers me, though, is the built-in microphone for voice commands — on a lamp! I don’t want someone listening to me. It’s too late to send it back, and I actually want to keep it.

Until now, I’ve just unplugged it from the outlet every time I don’t use it, but that’s very tedious. So, is there an easier way to completely disable the microphone? Does putting tape over it completely mute it? Or would I have to take it apart and desolder it — which I’m probably too lazy, impatient, and inexperienced to do? So is there maybe a smarter or brute force way to do it? im paranoid i dont want my fucking lamp listening to me. sometime i even turn of mic and cam acsess on my phone.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Framework laptops have a little physical switch to turn off the camera / mic when you don't want them.

The original SGI webcams, some of the first that ever existed, actually had a physical plastic cover that you could slide over them when you didn't want the camera on. "No, I don't trust your hardware any more than your software. I shouldn't need to. Stop looking at me when I don't want you to, and prove to me that you are not, or else I will be suspicious." Back in those days that was sort of a universal point of view among internet people, I think...

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 9 points 1 day ago

The HP laptop I have for work includes a little plastic thing that slides over the webcam.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Framework laptops have a little physical switch to turn off the camera / mic when you don’t want them.

Unfortunately even this is not that comforting because we don't know how the switch is implemented. Is it actually in series with the microphone data lines? Power lines? Ideally both but you'll never know. It could even just be a software GPIO switch (gonna bet Amazon Echos with their microphone switches are implemented like that) and unless you have the knowledge to check the PCB you'll always have that lingering suspicion.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 day ago

This is a valid concern with a lot of manufacturers. My gut says that Framework actually does what it says, but here is a discussion about it:

https://community.frame.work/t/how-do-the-camera-and-microphone-switches-work/4271

As far as I can tell each switch is a U channel with a light emitter on one side, and a detector on the other. The part you move on the bezel just breaks the light beam. This creates a electronic on/off hardware switch.

Using an actual physical switch would tend to be a source of an intermittent connection over time. Hence the use of optical technology. Same thought process for the screen open switch being a Hall Effect sensor, which can work through a cover.

Both of these switches are optical switches where a vane will block the light from one side to a phototransistor on the other side. The photo transistor will then cut power to the camera circuit, or switch the mic data output from the mic to a dummy output that generates silence.

The webcam light is also hardware for once. A lot of laptops do it with software, where people complain the camera turning on without the light being on. Framework shouldn't have that problem

The classic Technology Connections video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=m0mMF7GaIR0

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I can verify that the OS fails to see the microphone and webcam when switched off. This was really confusing the one time that I wanted to use them.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I sort of suspect that the wiring is in a diagram somewhere. I could be wrong, but that would be my guess. It's not in a PCB, that's up in the bezel where it's just wires and stuff.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 1 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (1 children)

I sort of suspect that the wiring is in a diagram somewhere

That's called a schematic and not only are those not public, they're closely guarded trade secrets that companies will spend a lot of resources to prevent from leaking to the public.

Also, just because a schematic says the switch is connected a certain way doesn't mean that's actually how it's connected. The only way to prove how the switch works is to inspect the traces in the PCB, which is very difficult to do especially without destroying it. Modern computers have multi layer PCBs that you'd basically need to peel apart to see the inner traces.

[–] PhilipTheBucket@piefed.social 6 points 23 hours ago

Here's the pinout for the webcam component: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Framework-Laptop-13/tree/main/Webcam

Unfortunately it isn't really clear whether the switch positions are in the pinout because it's the mainboard's job to implement shutting off the camera when it's off, or just as information with the webcam module responsible for shutting it off in hardware. I have no idea which it is, but it wouldn't be super-hard for someone capable with EE to take off the bezel and fool around with it and see which it is (or just pay $19 for the magic of buying two of them, if you didn't want to take apart your own laptop for it.)

They say they provide full schematics on demand to repair shops (https://knowledgebase.frame.work/availability-of-schematics-and-boardviews-BJMZ6EAu). I'm not sure why they don't want to just post them publicly, so in that sense you might be right, but they also don't seem like they are trying to keep them or the interface details of the webcam module fully top secret either.

They do seem like they publish enough information that someone could figure out the answer if they wanted to. (People in the forums have fooled around with them and seem to be convinced that they are actually hardware switches: https://community.frame.work/t/how-do-the-camera-and-microphone-switches-work/4271 IDK whether that's accurate, but that's what the forum people think.)

No idea why you're trying to lecture me from this position of authority about taking apart PCBs and whatnot. Anyway, that's how it works, hope this is helpful for you.