SneerClub

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Hurling ordure at the TREACLES, especially those closely related to LessWrong.

AI-Industrial-Complex grift is fine as long as it sufficiently relates to the AI doom from the TREACLES. (Though TechTakes may be more suitable.)

This is sneer club, not debate club. Unless it's amusing debate.

[Especially don't debate the race scientists, if any sneak in - we ban and delete them as unsuitable for the server.]

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Move over TESCREAL, R9PRESENTATIONALism is here. (archive.is)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Soyweiser@awful.systems to c/sneerclub@awful.systems

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As found by @gerikson here, more from the anti anti TESCREAL crowd. How the antis are actually R9PRESENTATIONALism. Ottokar expanded on their idea in a blog post.

Original link.

I have not read the bigger blog post yet btw, just assumed it would be sneerable and posted it here for everyone's amusement. Learn about your own true motives today. (This could be a troll of course, boy does he drop a lot of names and thinks that is enough to link things).

E: alternative title: Ideological Turing Test, a critical failure

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[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 10 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Almost all are avowedly committed to the ideals of tolerance, pluralism, and diversity in faith; if you were to say that a belief system should be dismissed simply because it is essentially religious in nature in essentially any other context, they would be some of the loudest voices speaking out against you. So why should TESCREAL be any different? Why is it that religion as a whole is fine, but not this religion?

Because a religion passing itself off as scientific is a bad thing? Just spitballin' here.

[–] blakestacey@awful.systems 6 points 13 hours ago

Why is it that religion as a whole is fine, but not this religion?

Me: This plant is poisonous.

You, a lesswrong brain genius: Plants are a vital part of the Earth's ecosystem. They make the oxygen that we breathe. You call yourself a vegetarian, and yet you have a problem with this plant. Why is it that plants as a whole are fine, but not this plant?

Me: This plant is poisonous.

[–] istewart@awful.systems 5 points 20 hours ago

We have at least one major worked example of that in Scientology, but IIRC many of the rats are reluctant to even accept that

[–] scruiser@awful.systems 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's true. "Passing itself off as scientific" also describes Young Earth Creationism and Intelligent Design and various other pseudosciences. And in terms of who is pushing pseudoscience... the curent US administration is undeniably right-wing and opposed to all mainstream science.

Also, I would at least partially disagree with this:

Very few of the people making this argument are militant atheists who consider religion bad in of itself.

I would identify as an atheist, if not a militant one. And looking at Emile Torres' Wikipedia page, he is an atheist also. Judging by the uncommon occasions it comes up on sneerclub, I think a lot of us are atheist/agnostic. Just not, you know, "militant". And in terms of political allegiance, a lot of the libertarians on lesswrong are excited for the tax cuts and war on woke of the Trump administration even if it means cutting funding to all science and partnering up with completely batshit Fundamenalist Evangelicals.

[–] YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems 3 points 17 hours ago

I think the religious angle isn't a general criticism as much as a counter to the specific narrative that the TESCREAL ideology is somehow rooted purely in logic and realistic evaluations of technology rather than in fantasy and wild speculation. The criticism of how it rhymes with certain elements of fundamentalist Christianity are usually rooted in this same observation, as well as in the fact that the elements of Christianity that TESCREALism most closely rhymes with are themselves harmful or insane regardless of what kind of wrapper you put them in. Like, both Christian and Singularitarian eschatologies use their faith in apocalyptic prophecies/predictions to devalue action to address very real suffering in the here-and-now in favor of trying to improve the lot of humanity in this hypothetical future, which just so happens to involve preaching more Christian/Singularitarian end times crap and also giving insiders to associated organizations lots of money and power. There's a leftist version of that too and it's also pretty fucked up.