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After reading through the comments here, I’m no longer curious as to how we arrived at where we currently are. We’re an absolute mess! An embarrassingly arrogant and equally ignorant mess.
And while it’s true that our future remains uncertain, after reading through this thread, I’m not sure it’s a good idea that any of us hold on to any length of hope that this disaster will ever right itself again. That is, if it is to be believed that we are a microcosm of a larger collective.
It’s said, that hope is a luxury of those who have a choice. But we had a choice. And what did we do? We slept. We withheld votes in protest. We stayed home. We opted out. However it is presented- We made our choice.
And now here we are. Salivating at the chance to tear one another a new asshole while we marinade in the results of our inability to do the bare minimum to protect a nation’s democracy.
We didn’t just deserve this:
We earned it.
We had a choice between one monster, and another (there were other options, but both monsters fought to keep the non-monsters off the ballot). Sure, one monster was a bigger, meaner monster, but the other monster was still pretty damn evil. Maybe next time we should be allowed to pick someone that isn't evil, for a change.
It will never cease to amaze me that people blame the voters for being disgusted with the candidates, rather than blaming the parties for choosing such awful candidates.
It will never cease to amaze me how so many people could expect things to change by doing absolutely nothing.
When given a choice between cancer and a broken bone, you pick the broken bone- every time.
But… now we have cancer- and this isn’t up for debate.
Actually you shoot the person who is forcing that choice on you in the face, and you beat-up his enablers. You don't accept cancer and broken-bones. Goddamn I fucking hate liberals.
Do nothing??? Look at the DSA getting zohran mamdani into position over shoe-in and sex pest cuomo. Organise with others and dont vote newsom
I’ll vote for who I want to vote for, thanks. And for the record, that will be whoever has the best chance to dethrone trump. If that someone happens to be part of the DSA, so be it. I’ll have zero issues casing a vote their way. If it isn’t. I won’t lose sleep over it.
See?
This is the difference between people like you and I. I have no problem voting for whoever is the better candidate of the two- regardless of whether or not they align with my policies ideology. And had more of the people like you subscribed to this theory- we wouldn’t be where we are now.
Unless or course you’re all still touting the belief that Kamala would have been the exact same as Trump.
You enabled trump fuck you and die.
What are you talking about, after bernie got ratfucked people rallied behind killary because she is (supposedly) the lesser evil and then got genocide joe. So they rallied behind genocide joe because supposedly he is the lesser evil and then got killemalla (and he was shuffled off not because of his genocide, but because he was bad tv). So they rallied behind killemalla because she was the supposed lesser evil and now the dems are focustesting gruesome newsom. Your theory is the one that has been the mainstream since 2016 and look where you are now.
The minute you said “gEnOciDe jOe” this discussion ended. I have no tolerance to entertain ignorance.
well educate me then...
But you seemingly have a tolerance for Genocide?
It's more likely bad faith tankie Stalinism. One of the chief features of Stalinism is that they view other leftists as their main enemy, not conservatives.
Yeah. I’m noticing that a lot lately. Especially here. I was recently asked what I felt the difference between Lemmy and Reddit is, and I said that from my opinion, Reddit is full of smart people that try to act stupid, and Lemmy is full of stupid people that try to act smart.
This isn’t to say that this applies to everyone, as of course- there’s nuance in everything, but it does seem to be a bit of a theme to both platforms.
Pot meets kettle mate
Yeah. I’m done with you…. mate.
https://media.tenor.com/8t1onj9cfkQAAAAM/forest-gump-wave.gif
You do realize the error with this utility calculation, right? A few more years of this style of "pragmatic liberal utilitarianism" will have you voting for a Dem who wants 9 genocides over a republican who wants 10. You'll find yourself voting for 2036 Dem candidate Ted Cruz as he runs against the republicans' candidate of Mecha Hitler.
This strategy isn't sustainable, and what you've shown is that there is no number of Palestinian children you wouldnt sacrifice to bide time for your crumbling oligarchy. At some point, we have a moral duty to the victims of our imperialism to simply dismantle our genocidal country.
Is your genocidal country (A) Russia, or (B) China? Its hard to tell but we know that both countries have populations so stupid that they allowed dictators to steal their entire governments. We know that Chinese imperialists invaded Tibet to annex their territory and Russian imperialists invaded Ukraine to annex their territory and they do indeed have a moral duty to dismantle their governments.
When we go to unprovable predictions about the future so that the your argument cannot be refuted, the debate ends right there. I don’t play what if. I play what was and what is.
Genocide was going to happen without anyone else being involved. And if America wasn’t involved, you lot would have just found another thing to be outraged over. I’ve seen this time-and-again. This happens every election year.
Cry all you want about how unjust things are happening. But know that unjust things have always happened just as they are happening now. No matter who is in office, and no matter how much you don’t like it.
Lastly… You chose this reality by refusing to step up and do your part. And not only that, but you chose this for millions of others. I sincerely hope that your ability to remain in denial of this is able to sustain you through the hardships they all have to face.
Because we certainly wouldn’t want the hardships and oppression of millions of people to hurt your feelings, would we?
This argument is over.
least callous seppo
"If you weren't outraged by us providing the weapons to bomb brown kids it would probably be us providing the weapons to bomb black kids, there is just no winning with you people..."
Do you always need to rewrite other people’s arguments in order to have something to argue against?
I’m the one that gets to illustrate my point. Not you.
What I said, was that they were going to wage a war against Palestine regardless of anyone’s assistance. I said nothing at all about us bombing anyone at all.
If you can’t discuss the topic like a mature adult, you can go manufacture your outrage elsewhere. I’m not providing a platform for you to spew nonsense.
They got to commit genocide on the palestinian people because of the seppo governments assistance. The occupation regime of west palestine would cease to exist if not for your government.
I also said nothing about you bombing anyone, you provide the bombs and let others do the dirty work.
Also what kind of argument is "they were going to commit genocide anyway, might as well help them?"
Thats... called a hypothetical. Hypotheticals allow you to do thought experiments - which are not some conniving, underhanded, or fallacious way of arguing.
If, hypothetically, in 30 years, your choice is between a democrat who wants 10 genocides and a replublican who wants 11, will you still be militantly democrat?
Who is doing nothing? We're fighting for change, we are pushing for parties that are fighting for the people. We were litteraly in the streets, when the Democrats were out to brunch, while the Democratic leaders were bombing kids, and backing genocides.
Your analogy is flawed, btw. A more apt analogy would be terminal-cancer, or less-severe-terminal-cancer. So... congratulations on supporting the cancer, instead of helping the people who are suffering from cancer.
Fighting for a change? Who are you fighting? In what manner do you fight? Give me an example of this fight you’re performing.
Because from where is sit, I’m seeing an awful lot of people that think that withholding a vote because of [insert flavor of the week reason] is somehow going to create change. And protests? They only work if those you’re protesting have empathy and shame. Protests don’t create change. VOTES DO.
By the way- this happens every single election year. Take note on all the change you fought for by doing jack shit.
Protests, pushing for 3rd parties and politicians that have a record of actually doing something, funding anti-police and military groups, funding homeless-shelters and health-care for people in need.
I find this rich coming from some one who is defending the Democrats.
The left is so fractured and infested with idealists that they can't be fucked to vote for someone that is 80% of what they want vs 10% of what they want. That's what this whole thing boils down to. We have two parties. That's it. If we had a system like Germany we may be able to create change. We can't here. Lesser of two evils is the only option.
Voting for the lesser of two evils for 40 years got us Trump. So maybe try something else.
I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Yeah, you're right, better to back the GOP instead.
There are non-capitalist candidates on the ballot, try voting for them.
Agreed. It’s that whole “perfect being the opposite of good” ideology. Every election year, it’s always the same thing- some socio-economic or political event gets them in a rage and they aren’t even aware that by-and-large, it’s the conservatives that are in the shadows, laughing their asses off while fanning the flames.
The fracture their protest causes only helps the right. And their smug arrogance won’t ever lent them see it.
We're aware who is fanning the flames. We also see Democratic politicians holding a match and a can of gasoline, and we're told that it's our fault for asking for something better.
Speak for your damn self.