There are, unfortunately, a great many people who like to take any opportunity to shill "Both Sides Bad!", even if it means using literal Nazi propaganda as their basis. Some are ideologically motivated; many are simply contrarians who feel smug about going against "the consensus".

Propaganda, unfortunately, works, even long after its creators are dead.

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Yes, but who are these people?

I'm German and except the small minority of backwards thinking neo nazi pricks I don't see and hear much of these "great many people" you speak of. Granted, I live in liberal minded Berlin so my perception of this may be a little less objective. I'm not trying to contradict you, I'm genuinely interested who you refer to exactly.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 month ago (1 children)

In the US, it's common for both Wehraboos (folks who are not Nazis per se, but with an unhealthy interest in Nazi militaria and susceptible to some of the more 'palatable' Nazi propaganda) and campists (folks who think that everything the West has ever done is Bad) to take up such contrarian views.

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

I really didn't know there were this many people in America holding that belief. Despite Trump and MAGA I still kinda hoped that this would be a fringe view held by only the most delusional people over there.

It's really disconcerting to find myself to be more accepting of reality than the people whose ancestors freed us from tyranny.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I think they mean "on the internet." I dunno, maybe I'm fortunate to live in a progressive state, but the way I read about it on Reddit and Lemmy, I should be running into Nazis left and right.

[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

We elected and reelected a party that is establishing a facist theocracy and destroying established science in favor of fringe craziness. The Charlottesville march, the AMC church shooting, ICE, and just all the actions of this current US administration have the support of at least 30% of the country.

I dont run into these people because I don't approach people with that vibe and I don't work with people likely to espouse those views. But they do exist and aren't quiet about it if they think they can get away with it.

[–] SolOrion@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 month ago

I watched a documentary about a guy that went undercover with a lot of alt-right crazies. Proper straight up 1488 neo-nazi types. The guy offhandedly mentioned that they did initiations and filmed recruitment videos.. in the town next to mine.

It's generally extremely Republican-leaning here, full on MAGA signs in lawns type shit. I still did not expect that. I've never actually run into someone that was a blatant Nazi. I think they just keep a lid on this shit in public.

I have met a few 'just asking questions' types, though.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Oh yeah, mostly online. Though, having lived in a conservative area for much of my younger life, I can assure you that a very nonzero amount of otherwise nice folk in America hold some really bizarre views on... various historical events, WW2 included.

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In America, this mindset saying that "what the government tells us is wrong" by default seems to be way more prevalent than in other countries. Combine that with subpar education and you got some really dumb fucking morons who believe crazy shit, even about WW2.

As a German native speaker I can read all the historical sources down to the smallest Gestapo police report, or the death sentences handed out to regular citizens who only made the mistake of publicly stating that they thought "the war could not be won". I've listened to all the speeches, read so many documents.

I also wanted to find out what my family did during the Nazi regime, enquired at the Bundesarchiv about NSDAP membership of my grandfathers and -mothers. I'm 49 yrs old so I knew them, and when I was a kid one of my grandmothers once shouted at me for saying Hitler was a criminal - she said I knew nothing about the times and how dare I have an opinion about that and I should shut up. What I found out about my family in my quest for documents wasn't nice.

What I'm trying to say is this in a nutshell: I think I have a level of knowledge about the Nazi regime almost on par with that of a historian.

And let me assure you, they were even worse - WAY worse - than the contemporary American History Channel audience believes.

As much as it pains me to say this as a German - the Nazis needed to be stopped by all means. If that took killing civilians, even doing things that could be considered war crimes - very regrettable, but no German could or should blame anyone else than the Nazis for everything that happened.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

It's a minority, but a loud minority.

[–] Miaou@jlai.lu 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

A fifth of your country vote for nazis, and another third don't mind them. Time to get out of Berlin a bit. AfD voters don't really hide anymore

[–] glorkon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

The fifth of my country who vote for the AfD are historically illiterate and uneducated people by and large. I reckon most of them couldn't even tell you the year the Dresden bombing happened. Many of them would find OP's pills hard to swallow only because they're too dumb to find their own mouth.

Also, Berlin is a progressive island surrounded by a sea of assholes, that's why I prefer staying here.