this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2025
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Unfortunately, Democrats (see: CA, WA) have been straight up banning guns instead of focusing on safe ownership.
Regardless of your political affiliation, you should be very concerned about the federal government using official state militias (Nat Guard) against the states and questioning straight gun bans.
The federal government should step in for state overreach, and the state government should step in for federal overreach. If the federal government is co-opting the state militia (and while some states have non-National Guard militias, some don’t), what’s the purpose of the second amendment?
There should be extra concern by now that Trump wants to "recruit external people to assist law enforcement" ...
Effectually he's raising his own separate militia so he can put them in action anywhere he wants and not be limited by the law where the Military/National Guard can not be used on American soil.
The law isn’t exactly stopping him now
Right. And no one has raised their own militia to start the civil war. So guns or no guns, what’s the difference?
Also would be nice if people in the military didn’t follow illegal orders, like they are supposed to do. And turned their command on those issuing the illegal orders. Should take some notes from South Korea when they had that thing like a year ago with their president.
I mean we’re not at the point where we’re being forced yet. DC isn’t a state so… curiously, California didn’t do anything but i don’t know if they have a state militia
I used to oppose private weapon ownership over the time i have come to see that it is indeed an important tool to defend against totalitarian takeovers.
It is by no means a sufficient tool by itself, and people can manage to overcome a totalitarian government without in some historical examples, but often this meant a lot of bloodshed and ultimately gaining weapons through overrunning police/military sites or defecting army units.
Don't wanna be a conspiracy theorist, wouldn't it be a genious idea to split the oligarchy party into seemingly two distinct parties, with one side arming racist hillbillies and using propaganda to control them, the other disarming minorities and anyone left-of-center. Gun control is propaganda.
"Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary"
-Karl Marx
What’s safe ownership and how can Democrats advance it legislatively?
I got downvoted elsewhere for suggestions.
Essentially, don't outright ban guns but make it really hard to own one.
Option 1) Restrict 5.56 and other non-common hunting rounds: 1a) If you want to shoot recreationally? The ammo must be bought and used at the range. Any unused ammo must be returned to the range. Up to the range whether or not to keep a "cache" for members so that they're not wasting too many rounds 1b) The individual state distributes those rounds and keeps records.
Option 2) Random safety checks 2a) The state enforcement may show up at your house at any time. You are required to rreport to the state when you will be gone for extended periods of time. If you didn't previously file out of the country, you are allowed a small amount of missed calls. The state shall verify that your ammo is stored separately from your firearms and are properly locked. If not, any firearm not safely stored is confisticated. 2b) Every serial number must have a name associated and in a database with your name and address. You must report when the guns move and they must be with you at your primary residence except when you are on vacation. This is also subject to random checks. If you are found to violate this, any firearms not following this will be removed. Yes, I am outlawing storage lockers.
Sorry bro, but I'm not letting the fash in my house as long as I still have bullets. You're coming from the right place, but hard no. Also, I live in a place with dangerous animals about. I will absolutely always have a piece on my side. What is needed, as has been needed is to make people less desperate and make healthcare, including mental healthcare widely available and paid for by taxes. Don't be the boot, brother. That ain't the way.
Thank you for the feedback.
I fail to see how you think those draconian home inspections are going to be more politically tractable than banning assault rifles. I appreciate you taking the time to explain your (clearly passionately held) ideas, but I don’t think we’re looking at this issue at all similarly.
I think we have different approaches to get to the same goal.
Unfortunately, my brain works like this:
Make a solution
Write a unit test to make sure it’s doing what it’s supposed to be doing
Unfortunately a signal unit test won’t work here, so we have to poll the status to make sure our solution is working.
Sources for gun bans passing?
https://www.atg.wa.gov/firearms
I legally own and possess one or more firearms that I cannot sell or buy more of in Washington State due to changes in the law in the past five years. They “grandfather” you when they write these laws because they know it causes less uproar when they blatantly violate the Constitution. Which means all those guns are still around.
I vote Democrat because I’m not a Nazi but sometimes they make it hard, like when over half of ALL gun deaths in the US are from suicide (sOuRCe: gunviolencearchive.org) and all they can come up with is ban, ban, ban, and they just don’t give a shit that all those people wanted to die and maybe we should be trying to help people want to be alive.
Meanwhile, suicide by gun doesn’t require an assault rifle or a standard capacity magazine to accomplish. They don’t care about that, either, even though it literally accounts for most gun deaths.
I suppose a handgun ban and gun buy back program would reduce suicide deaths considerably. You down?
You know what would actually reduce suicide deaths? Economic reforms to stop the spiraling inequality and rise of oligarchs that makes working-class people despair in the first place. But that's the one thing the Democrats appear absolutely Hell-bent on withholding from us.
How about people STFU about guns and start being down with that instead?
We lose 50k plus people to gun violence every year. That is close to a million Americans dead in the last twenty years. It is now the number one killer of children.
This doesn't even take into consideration all the wounding, threats, violence, rape, etc. that is perpetrated because of easy access to guns.
Providing mental health service at no cost would be a great way to handle suicide, but it would still not solve the actual gun problem.
Providing better economical distribution and opportunities would improve crime rates, but it would not solve the problem of gun proliferation.
So you don't really have an answer other than clutching your guns.
WTF is the point of even replying if you're going to ignore every single thing I wrote?
This is the most ass-backwards hot take I've ever read. "Addressing the root cause of the problem would not solve the problem; we must myopically focus on a symptom of it!"
Tools are not the problem -- they can't be, by definition, as they are inanimate objects with no agency. The violence itself is the problem! How are you failing to comprehend that?
Edit: I think I've figured out how to explain it in a way you people might understand: arguing that access to guns makes people kill is exactly like arguing that women wearing sexy clothes makes people rape. Your argument really is just the liberal counterpart to that sort of right-wing nonsense, and equally defective.
What part of number one killer of children are you not getting.
You have no answers because the only way to reduce child death is to remove guns from the equation.
What part of a million Americans dead in the last twenty years at the feet of gun worshippers is not getting through.
Your only solution is more guns, guess what we already have more guns than every woman, man, child, and baby in the US. How many more guns until we are safe?
The problem is violence is worse because of easy access to guns. Guns are literally the problem and we can see this in every country that does not have a ridiculous problem with gun proliferation.
Worse it is not just our problem. Mexico's gun violence is also directly linked to proliferation of guns in the US.
Why are you lying?
First of all, unless you're cherry-picking only the last year or so, the number one killer of children for decades has been car crashes.
Second, I didn't say a single goddamn thing about "more guns" and you fucking know it. Don't you dare put words in my mouth.
You need to rethink your bad-faith bullshit. You're so deranged and frothing you can't even address what I'm actually saying and lash out at some kind of imagined boogeyman instead.
Let me be perfectly clear: I don't give a fuck about guns. I give a fuck about actually solving actual problems by addressing root causes.
Why don't you?
First facts are facts, number one killer of children. Before it was number two? Is that seriously your argument. Why are you dodging the truth.
Second, did you say we need less guns. If so I agree, if not I disagree.
You need to see past the propaganda and years of gun lobbying and lies that have made people think guns are a solution to a problem rather than the problem.
You seem to care an awful lot about guns, for not caring about them.
There's a couple things that are objectively true everyone needs to recognize for this discussion:
the prevalance of guns in america contributes to increased violence
a significant part of this is a cultural issue, other countries have incredibly high rates of gun ownership without these problems (these rates are still significantly lower than the US)
suicide makes up the vast majority of gun deaths, we shouldn't combine these with other gun violence because they have different root causes
I'm not sure we can say this is because of easy access to guns, I can find major cities in the US in deep red states with lower violent crime rates than similar european cities.
I can also find cities in deep red states with higher violent crime than similar european cities.
Does gun prevalence play a role? absolutely, but it's a complex issue and it's just one of many many factors.
It solves about 2/3 of it. But more seriously, banning guns wouldn't solve the gun problem either.
We have more guns than people, a significant chunk of which are completely untraceable. You can manufacture a gun at home with about ~$300 worth of equipment.
I'd bet the person you were responding to has one if you're willing to actually listen to them.
I am glad you can agree to reality as many people here cannot.
Crime rates belay the reality that most crimes are not prosecuted and even fewer end in conviction. It is estimated over a million women have been threatened by firearms.
The number of abusive relationships where one partner is afraid to leave because the other partner has threatened death with a gun is enormous in the US. Guns help perpetrate a ton of suffering that has nothing to do with convicted criminals.
If you grew up in an poor urban area you would know what it is like to duck for cover when you hear loud sounds. Countless millions of people live in fear everyday in the US because of gun proliferation.
Cherry picking crime rates when the laws are not enforced at all or are not applied evenly is not really proving anything in my opinion.
Would a ton of abuse, murder, suicide, and crime not happen without guns? The answer is an astounding yes.
Lastly the person has no answer because they believe guns are the solution to crime, fascism, and whatever other random problem they want to apply it to.
Guns don't make people threaten others, they make the threats more real and frightening. Guns are part of the problem they aren't the whole problem. Banning guns doesn't solve this, we need a holistic approach that involves gun control but you don't solve these issues by just banning guns. I'd argue you can adequately address these issues through things like red flag laws and individual bans.
I have. I've had to run from a shooting. I've had to run from a false alarm later.
I bet they don't. Every leftist or liberal gun owner I've met has supported expansive gun reforms.
Honestly, this comes across as projection. You seem to view guns as the cause of every problem you want to apply it to.
Guns don't stop fascism, but they make it take more resources to enforce. We have anonymous unaccountable state agents grabbing people off the street and sending them to torture camps. Now is not the time to disarm the most vulnerable in our society.
I think you are mistaken. If you have ever seen a young man with a gun you would know how it emboldens them with a false sense of power. Guns create situations because they are everywhere and easy to access.
I am an advocate for a dramatic reduction in firearms. Banning would be the most practical, but I could agree with a compromise that would regulate guns away from the majority of people.
I am very familiar with gun culture. For ever person that safely locks up there gun separately from the ammunition there are ten who do things like leave a loaded rifle against the wall next to their front door, have a loaded gun underneath their pillow, or have a loaded handgun in their purse where their children could easily access it
Every liberal I know doesn't like guns and the ones that do are typically the exception not the rule. They are a minority which I don't believe are necessarily a problem.
Honestly you come off as a someone who really doesn't understand the suffering guns have caused our society. Your a half-baked apologist at best.
Fascism loves guns and if you think the second amendment people are not on the side of ICE you are fucking crazy.
You have exposed yourself as just another person who thinks guns solve problems. If you think gun ownership is going to stop or even slow down fascism then you have a metric shit-ton of catching up to do.
You know what else would considerably reduce suicides? Universal mental health care
It'd be more effective too by actually addressing the root of the problem instead of just putting a bandaid on it
Americans are desperate to come up with any other explanation than their beloved toys being the cause.
Guns make suicide easier, they don't cause depression.
Regardless of what we do with guns we need to address mental health.
The problem is definitely gun proliferation.
I agree universal mental health care would be helpful but I don't know of any countries that actually provide this.
Off the top of my head:
https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.390
Ok. You mean the ban of specific guns or types of guns. I do agree that assault weapons bans are troublesome, mostly because the people deciding what makes a gun an “assault” weapon don’t really know what they’re talking about. That said, I do think there are weapons that the average person should absolutely not be able to purchase. At least, not without formal training. Beyond this, guns in general are still available, and if legislatures pass these kinds of laws, they can be rescinded with the next election if the population wants that. While it’s not ideal for gun enthusiasts, it’s not like they don’t have all sorts of alternative options.
if the police can legally use a weapon on my dog, I shouldn't be barred by any laws from owning that weapon too. this is the wrong direction to approach gun violence from
HB1240 from 2023:
https://legiscan.com/WA/text/HB1240/id/2794878
https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1848971668/
Because most gun owners don't want to be on a list. And they should absolutely be tracked. Even if the only way to get ammunition is at a range, where you have to leave all unshot ammunition at the range, or from the state directly.
Yeah, it's just too bad that there's no way to prevent this.