Europe
News and information from Europe 🇪🇺
(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)
Rules (2024-08-30)
- This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
- No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
- Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
- No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don't question the statehood of Israel.
- Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
- If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
- Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in other communities.
- Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
- No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)
- Always provide context with posts: Don't post uncontextualized images or videos, and don't start discussions without giving some context first.
(This list may get expanded as necessary.)
Posts that link to the following sources will be removed
- on any topic: Al Mayadeen, brusselssignal:eu, citjourno:com, europesays:com, Breitbart, Daily Caller, Fox, GB News, geo-trends:eu, news-pravda:com, OAN, RT, sociable:co, any AI slop sites (when in doubt please look for a credible imprint/about page), change:org (for privacy reasons)
- on Middle-East topics: Al Jazeera
- on Hungary: Euronews
Unless they're the only sources, please also avoid The Sun, Daily Mail, any "thinktank" type organization, and non-Lemmy social media. Don't link to Twitter directly, instead use xcancel.com. For Reddit, use old:reddit:com
(Lists may get expanded as necessary.)
Ban lengths, etc.
We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.
If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 7 or 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.
If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the primary mod account @EuroMod@feddit.org
view the rest of the comments
Listen, people from the former Soviet bloc, we get it, you were traumatized. But you can't just blanketly force your bad experience on the rest of us. In much of the world, the polarity of your experience was reversed. Communists were (and are) the people arguing for democracy for human rights and for liberty. And they were the people persecuted and jailed and tortured for this. Joke all you like, but it's just simply historical fact in places ranging from Spain and Greece to like Indonesia and Nepal. And in those places, the conflation of communism and Nazism as "totalitarianism" is just obscene.
In France in particular, I mean look at the tricolour: socialist ideas are part of what being French is. And this fascist mayor is doing something obscene, essentially lumping the collaborationists and the pétainistes together with the people who fought against them for a free french people.
Yes, your experiences are valid, but they are not the only ones that are valid.
I'm confused who you're addressing your comment to. The article is about a French town. That's not the former soviet bloc.
The most rabid anticommunists online tend to be people from eastern Europe or immigrants (or their descendents) from there
That's entirely where the perspective comes from, even if it's second-hand, since most other people don't have direct experience living in a communist society.
Or Nazi society for that matter, but got the most part we have consensus on that one being universally awful.
You got kicked in a head by a horse? Your "argument" is equal to saying "Nazis werent all bad, they build highways." Shame on you.
No it's not the same. I'm not saying communists built stuff. I'm saying communists fought and got persecuted for democracy and human rights. This is actually historically true in places like the ones I mention in my post, places like Greece, Chile, Indonesia, etc. Show me one fucking place in the world where Nazis/fascists fought for democracy and human rights. I'll wait.
Communist never fought for democracy but for communism. The stuff you are mentioning was the same stuff NSDAP fought four because it was socialist as well. You are unaducated idiot supporting murderous regime. You are ommiting milions of people who died as direct result of communism either as enemy of the regime or in famine. In my country it is a crime to deny the crimes of nazi and communist regimes on the same level, because they are equally dangerous and are equally horrible. Again, shame on you, go masturbate over Marx, Lenin and Mao somewhere else.
I’m not denying the crimes of communist regimes. See my first post. Millions suffered under them, and that pain deserves full recognition. Those experiences are valid.
But my point wasn’t “Stalin good.” My point was that in places like Greece, Spain, Chile, Indonesia, and others, communists were the ones who resisted fascists, fought for democracy, and were jailed or killed for it. That’s a historical fact, whether you like it or not.
Nazis never fought for democracy, ever. That is also historical fact.
And that’s the difference. Saying that Nazis were socialists is a tired talking point that is false and debunked.
If you want to argue history, bring evidence. If you just want to throw insults, then you’re not debating, you’re venting. Go vent elsewhere.
That's just a flat lie. Communists have never championed Democracy and human rights. PRC, North Korea, Vietnam, the Soviet Union, none promoting either democracy or human rights in practice. What possible state falls into your arguments here, I struggle to think of a single one.
I mean Cambodia under Pol Pot!? Human rights, what a joke.
Communists never championed democracy and rights?
What do you know of modern Greek history?
Here is what I wrote:
Do you want me to list names of Greek communists who did exactly that and suffered exactly thar? I even have a great-uncle who did several years hard time.
You say what state falls under this description? I dunno, Chile under Allende? Kerala under several decades of communist government? Uruguay under Mujica? Burkina under Sankara? Or do you want a recent European example, like Cyprus under Christofias? Or do you want examples of countless communist mayors from around the world? I could expand to Chiapas under the Zapatistas or Republican Spain or even Rojava under the SDF but let's keep revolutionary governments out of the picture.
Cyprus, Chile and Uruguay? You've got to be kidding... these failed states have horrendous human rights records
At this point in the thread I'm not sure if you're ignorant or just trolling.
Could say the same so maybe just leave it
Cuba seems to be pretty good with respect to human rights (especially considering their situation). Don't they have like the best (and most per capita maybe?) doctors in the world?
Certainly not democratic since all opposition was abolished, and the press was censored.
1 out of 2 ain't bad lol
There was never one Communism, but many different ones.
Communism in Italy, for example, was only slightly related to the experience in the CCCP.
In fact this is historically a fatal flaw of communism, the user was kinda doomed the moment the revolution in Germany failed
Communists in Italy never held state power...
The PCI was official opposition in the '70s and ran the local governments of most of Italy's large cities.
Who stopped Pol Pot?
For that matter, who colonized Cambodia and Vietnam?
Where are the memorials for the victims of French imperialism?
Great whataboutism, but irrelevant to the question at hand
The question at hand is "why are these French fascists pointing morons at communism when they're trying to bring back empire" and the answer is "because dumbasses like you buy it and talk about whattaboutism when people point out their hypocrisy."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Might want to read that btw. You might find the "Defense" section interesting if you're actually interested in honest rhetoric.
No. The question at hand is, of course, my comment to which you replied; to exemplify these, Communist states that so champions Democracy and Human Rights. And I'm just waiting...
If your definition of democracy is going out and vote every 4/5 yr (that fundamentally wont change anything) and then be suppressed by state, then sure you are enjoying democracy
k
Ok and was the USSR democratic?
It had democratic aspects, but overall it wasn't really democratic.
You educated and do not praise us straight to gulag!
For like 10 minutes in the beginning.
No, it also wasn't communist so not sure what's your point.
Nah bro we lernd in skool that they called themselves communist; they wrote CCCP on everything there’s gotta be at least one communism in there
On the off chance you're serious, that's not a C but a С which is essentially a Russian S. Also the Russian R is Р
So СССР is actually SSSR, and is short for Союз (Union) Советских (of Soviet) Социалистических (Socialist) Республик (Republics) or USSR in English.